Video Storytelling That Makes Content Stick with Gabrielle Dolan

[00:00:00] Gabrielle Dolan: You run something through AI and it comes back and you go, that sounds good. And you go, oh, that, no. Like he, oh my God, that sounds so much better than I would've said. And so we use it. And you know what? It probably does sound good, [00:00:15] but what it doesn't sound like.

[00:00:17] Chris Schwager: Is you. Hi, I'm Chris Schwanger, video coach and founder of the Complete Video Success System, and I've spent decades helping professionals create high impact videos that build trust, generate leads, and drive business success.

[00:00:28] Chris Schwager: And if you've ever felt unsure or [00:00:30] under prepared, or just play an awkward with video, this is for you. I'll give you the mindset and strategies to take control, build video confidence so that you show up like a pro. It's time to make your videos work for you. Today's guest is someone who [00:00:45] knows how to turn words into momentum and stories into influence.

[00:00:51] Chris Schwager: Gabrielle Dolan is an author, speaker, and one of Australia's most trusted voices on business storytelling. She works with leaders and teams around the world helping them [00:01:00] communicate with clarity, confidence, and authenticity. No fluff, no corporate bedtime stories. Just stories that actually move people.

[00:01:08] Chris Schwager: Gabrielle's back on the show after a brilliant conversation we had years ago about the power of storytelling. And this [00:01:15] time she's joining us with a brand new book that sharpens that edge even further. And if you want your message to land stick and be remembered long after the meeting ends, this is the conversation for you.

[00:01:25] Chris Schwager: So settle in, let your ego out to play and welcome [00:01:30] back to the show. Gabriel Dolan.

[00:01:32] Gabrielle Dolan: Oh, wow. What a, what an intro. Chris. I feel like pumped. I feel like I'm Yay. Great to be here.

[00:01:39] Chris Schwager: Well, we've already told a couple of stories before we fired up, didn't we? We

[00:01:43] Gabrielle Dolan: have. We were getting into storytelling so [00:01:45] much. We said, let's hit record and get this.

[00:01:47] Gabrielle Dolan: Let's,

[00:01:48] Chris Schwager: let's, let's

[00:01:48] Gabrielle Dolan: go,

[00:01:49] Chris Schwager: Gabriel, you were asking about who our audience is, and I told you, you know, predominantly those small businesses that are trying to get their brand image out into the world. And one of the things that is. [00:02:00] Increasingly obvious to me that lacks in the market is the lack of stories.

[00:02:05] Chris Schwager: Yeah. People just getting on there and telling the world a little bit about who they are, what they do, what makes them tick, where they've come from. Yeah. Is that what you find? Yeah.

[00:02:14] Gabrielle Dolan: [00:02:15] Uh, yeah, I do. I find that, uh, what I find is maybe there's stories, but effective stories is a, is another, you know, that's a whole other board ball game.

[00:02:25] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, but yeah, I, I'm finding now in a world of AI [00:02:30] generated content that, um, authentic stories are needed more than ever. And it was, it's probably the one of the reasons why I wrote the book. Um, but yeah, it's, uh, needs, needs more stories. And tell us the book title so everybody knows. [00:02:45] Oh, so the, so the, yeah.

[00:02:46] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. So the book's called Story Intelligence and um, the subtitle is The Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with ai. So it's interesting, Chris, when people go, oh, what's the name of your book? I go, oh, story Intelligence. They go, oh, right. And then I [00:03:00] go, and the subtitle is The Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with ai.

[00:03:04] Gabrielle Dolan: And they go, oh my God, so need this. So, um. Yeah, it, it was sort of like I said before, the premise was in a world of distrust and AI generated content, our stories are [00:03:15] needed more than ever, but AI is not the enemy, and you can actually use AI to help you find and refine your story. So technically it's still very much a storytelling book.

[00:03:25] Gabrielle Dolan: Like I would say. It's, it's, it's, it's not a, it's not a how to on ai. Yes. [00:03:30] But it's definitely a how to use AI as your creative partner when it comes to storytelling. So, um, yeah, pretty proud of it. It's been four years since the, the last book. Wow. And what, you've done like 15 books or something, haven't you?

[00:03:43] Gabrielle Dolan: It's a 27 [00:03:45] million books. No, I think this, this is like my eighth, eighth book. Um, wasn't too, and, and I actually, no, it wasn't too far off. I uh, and I actually thought the last book I wrote would be the last book I wrote on storytelling, because, you know, there's only so much you can write about it. But like, I just, you [00:04:00] know, it was sort of, um, this time a year ago, I had a lot of people start saying to me, you know, will AI replace storytelling?

[00:04:06] Gabrielle Dolan: It was like, oh no, my God, of course it won't. And then people would go, could you use AI to, you know, help with your stories or is that cheating? And it was, um, [00:04:15] and that's when I sort of started to experiment with AI and storytelling and, uh, discovered surprisingly, probably almost disturbingly. That it was actually pretty good at storytelling, but it was missing something.

[00:04:26] Gabrielle Dolan: And what it was missing was authenticity.

[00:04:29] Chris Schwager: [00:04:30] Mm mm Very good. I'll challenge you on the word authenticity in a moment when we, before we do, 'cause I love, I'll get a bit of friction going. Tell me, who is this book for?

[00:04:43] Gabrielle Dolan: I would say [00:04:45] this book is for anyone that needs to communicate their messages with more clarity and with more impact and, and probably to get cut through.

[00:04:56] Gabrielle Dolan: Uh, so you know, it is, it is for business [00:05:00] leaders, it's. Absolutely for small business, you know, people, um, there's even, there's even stuff in there and for personal, like how to use it for speeches or eulogy. So, um, it's sort of like anyone that needs to communicate and influence more effectively, which is sort [00:05:15] of everyone.

[00:05:16] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah,

[00:05:17] Chris Schwager: good call. Good call. And. And what, tell me, what's your, what's your take on, you know, this revolution, this beautiful gift that we're all given about three years [00:05:30] ago that brought so much clarity to communication? Uh. In a world notoriously bad at writing emails, SMSs, uh, speeches, website copy. Shall I go on?

[00:05:44] Chris Schwager: Yes. [00:05:45] This, what, what's, tell, tell me. You know, you've written, you've written this book around storytelling and ai. What's your version? Give?

[00:05:55] Gabrielle Dolan: I'll give you my take. So I'm, I'm feel like I'm having deja vu at the moment [00:06:00] and my deja vu is going back about 35 years ago. This is showing my age when PowerPoint first came out and PowerPoint came out, and when we saw what it could do, it was like, oh.

[00:06:13] Gabrielle Dolan: Oh my God, this is amazing. [00:06:15] This is gonna like, make all our presentations, like so engaging and like, oh, we can use little clip art fellas and we can have the slides, you know, zooming in and zooming out and, and sound effects like we just got thinking this is amazing. [00:06:30] And of course. What we have come to realize that it, while it had lots of good features, the poor use of it and the overuse of it, and the reliance on it, created death by PowerPoint.

[00:06:42] Gabrielle Dolan: And so I sort of see it [00:06:45] in the same vein that AI is not the enemy, just like PowerPoints not the enemy, but done poorly, it will become the enemy. And I, and what I see now, and I've been guilty of this myself, you run something through ai. And [00:07:00] it comes back and you go, that sounds good. And you go, oh, that, no.

[00:07:05] Gabrielle Dolan: Like even, oh my God, that sounds so much better than I would've said. And so we use it. And you know what? It probably does sound good, but what it doesn't sound like [00:07:15] is you. That's what it doesn't sound like. And then therefore it's, it's all sort of starting to sound the same. And, you know, the, the fact that there's, uh, the, one of the words entering the dictionary this year was AI slop, the fact that that has [00:07:30] entered the dictionary.

[00:07:30] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. That has. As well as six, seven. So, you know, go figure. Um, I, I'm, I'm on a mission to make sure story intelligence enters the dictionary, but, um, yeah, look, I, I think with any technology there's lots of benefits from it, but if you're [00:07:45] gonna be lazy with it, if you're gonna be lazy with our ai, um, it'll show through on your communication.

[00:07:52] Chris Schwager: You're telling me my intro, my my, your intro wasn't very good. Is, is it?

[00:07:56] Gabrielle Dolan: No, I'm saying your intro was very good. [00:08:00] Well, here, here's how, here's how, um, it was probably a little bit of ai, but is fine. But you know what the difference was? You delivered it. As you like, you know, I didn't have that shit. You did.

[00:08:11] Gabrielle Dolan: You were good. You was like, you, you just went like, it was just like, I'm talking to you [00:08:15] and you're going, yeah, yeah, yeah. Record blah. But I was like, oh my God, what happened to Chris?

[00:08:21] Chris Schwager: Uh, thank you for that compliment. I always, always say, I like to walk into a room and either give or take if I, I'm from sitting on the fence and I've got nothing to do with [00:08:30] either of those.

[00:08:30] Chris Schwager: I'm bored as, so thank you for making this podcast a little bit more entertaining. Now let, let me, let me gi give the attack. Uh, tell me about authenticity and the word authenticity.

[00:08:42] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah, so it's, it's, it's a, it's a really good [00:08:45] question because authenticity will mean. Different things to different people.

[00:08:49] Gabrielle Dolan: One where I come from authenticity when it comes from to storytelling, right? Because we've all heard, you know, oh, don't let the truth get in the way of good story and stuff like that. First of [00:09:00] all, the first thing with authenticity to me is you have to believe in the message as it's gotta be congruent with what you believe.

[00:09:07] Gabrielle Dolan: So if you are sharing a story. On the importance of work-life balance, you have to believe in work-life balance. If you are sharing a story [00:09:15] about, you know, maybe it's your, one of your business values is, um, transparency or accountable, you've gotta truly believe in that. So that's one part of authenticity.

[00:09:26] Gabrielle Dolan: And then the other part is the story has to be true. And [00:09:30] the moment you start making up stories and the moment you start exaggerating stories, so they're getting further from the truth. The reality is you'd wanna have a great memory, you'd wanna be a really good actor. And then what I say to people is, why would you, [00:09:45] why would you make up stories?

[00:09:46] Gabrielle Dolan: And I, and I think sometimes we make up stories when we go, well, I don't really have stories and I heard this story, or I asked AI to write me a story. And it's a really good story. Um, it's not yours. And so, you know, one of the, one [00:10:00] of the really cool things that story does, and there's research to show that this, that when, if you know, Chris, if you shared a story with me, the human brain, I not only.

[00:10:10] Gabrielle Dolan: I not only respond to the story you shared, but I respond to [00:10:15] you as the storyteller and done right. It can actually really fast track relationships and, and connections and trust. So you know, for new relationships, like you're meeting a client for the first time, a well told story can fast track. That, um, [00:10:30] trust and if you are talk, you know, maybe you are sharing, talking to clients or stakeholders or your teams, and it's a long relationship.

[00:10:37] Gabrielle Dolan: Every time you do this story, it can strengthen the relationship. So if, if that's what's happening, you don't wanna be [00:10:45] making up stories because I mean, just imagine if like someone found out it was made up, you, your credibility is shot and it's just not worth the reputation.

[00:10:54] Chris Schwager: There's a lot of businesses that want to be more authentic.

[00:10:58] Gabrielle Dolan: Oh yeah, yeah, [00:11:00] yeah, yeah. What's your take on that? They want to be, yeah. Um, yeah, some of them, they, and they wanna be more vulnerable. I see that a lot too. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and sometimes when it comes to storytelling and, and they go, oh, well I wanna share a story about vulnerability 'cause I wanna be [00:11:15] seen as vulnerable.

[00:11:16] Gabrielle Dolan: And I go, you don't share, you don't have to, you don't give the message that I'm vulnerable. You just be vulnerable and maybe sharing a story. Um, we'll show that vulnerability and, and my focus in my training [00:11:30] workshops is stories, uh, on that didn't happen at work and that they're really powerful to communicate your work messages.

[00:11:37] Gabrielle Dolan: The, the work stories absolutely work and the framework I teach can be used for both. But you know, if you've got a company value around [00:11:45] trust, um, instead of sharing a work related story around trust, why don't you share, you know, story of, you know, about your parents or whatever, or. You know, getting in trouble from, I always talk about, you know, when I, my friend encourage talked me into stealing a [00:12:00] little Kit Kat when I was like, you know, 12 years old and it was like, oh my God, it's probably one of the biggest regrets I have in my life, stealing that little tiny Kit Kat from a milk bar.

[00:12:10] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, so it's sharing a story when I literally stole something, which I did, but I [00:12:15] was, you know. 12 or 14 whenever I was. And so sometimes it's those personal stories that, um, can demonstrate your values, uh, more than the work ones.

[00:12:25] Chris Schwager: One. One of the things I remember from our last podcast back in 2001 [00:12:30] was we had a little moment.

[00:12:33] Chris Schwager: When we do you, I don't know if you remember this, we were both the youngest of eight children. Oh, right. Yeah. And this is the part of the narrative or the story that we tell often. Uh, yeah. And I, I kind of saw the [00:12:45] aha moment between us. Yeah. Do you think the, do you think this business's ability to tell a story, and, and I think you've answered it in your previous um, response, which was.

[00:12:57] Chris Schwager: Yes, there is a greater sense of trust when you are [00:13:00] revealing something that you either believe in or value.

[00:13:04] Chris Schwager: Yeah.

[00:13:04] Chris Schwager: And therefore making a stronger connection with the audience, right?

[00:13:08] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I, um, I did some work with, I was working, I was actually in [00:13:15] New York. But the, like, they were, you know, it was a professional service firm.

[00:13:18] Gabrielle Dolan: And so I sort of say, well, what's one of the really key important things that your clients, what's important for them? Like a value, you know, is I go, is it transparency? Is it trust? And they go, oh no, it's definitely trust. We, [00:13:30] we want, whenever we speak to a new client, we want them to feel they can trust us.

[00:13:34] Gabrielle Dolan: And if they feel they can trust us, we know we've, we've. Done the sale, but normally the, they're trying to build trust around, um, you know, look at all the work we've done previously and look [00:13:45] at our, yeah, the logic. So they're trying to build trust through logic, right. And it was, it's not gonna work. And I, I ha and I sort of, you know, worked with this guy and I said, what does it mean to you?

[00:13:53] Gabrielle Dolan: And he told me what it meant to him. And I go. Have, have you got, you know, and I helped him find a personal story. And, um, [00:14:00] the story, he, and I'm not gonna do this justice 'cause uh, I haven't practiced it for a while, but he, it was literally a story about he was the primary carer for his dad. And because of his travel commitments he needed that he needed to hire someone to go check up on his dad.

[00:14:14] Gabrielle Dolan: And he [00:14:15] said we'd, we'd get someone in and after a few weeks it wouldn't work out and we'd try someone else and it wouldn't work out. And then they got this guy called Sam. And um, after he said after a few weeks, I noticed that dad had given Sam the key to the [00:14:30] house and was talking about Sam. And I said to dad, what's different about Sam?

[00:14:35] Gabrielle Dolan: And his dad said. I can trust him. And he shared that story and I just went, oh my God. If you found a way to share that story with a client, to [00:14:45] literally say, I value trust, you know, and I will not let you down. Oh, I will be like this, like Sam is to my dad. I will be like that to you. That is my promise to you.

[00:14:55] Gabrielle Dolan: I go, you, you've got the gig. Like that is just like, that's just a lay down maser. [00:15:00] That they're walking out going, right. Well, we'll, because you know what? We make emotional decisions and what would happen in, you know, if this was a client pitch, they would walk out going, you know what? I just feel like we could work with them.

[00:15:13] Gabrielle Dolan: Mm-hmm. I, I just feel there's something [00:15:15] there. And they may not know it, but I guarantee you the story has probably done a lot of that heavy lifting.

[00:15:21] Chris Schwager: So people have the story in them, they just don't know it yet.

[00:15:27] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah, they have um, they have lots of [00:15:30] stories in them. They have lots of stories. I, there's a, there's an article going around at the moment on LinkedIn.

[00:15:35] Gabrielle Dolan: It's everywhere. Or maybe it's just on my feed 'cause it's around storytelling. Um, and it was just written about a week ago from the Wall Street Journal and it was about the amount of, uh, [00:15:45] in, in the US this was, but it's probably everywhere, the amount of LinkedIn job applications that have the word storyteller in its title.

[00:15:52] Gabrielle Dolan: So they're looking for. Storytellers. Now, this was predominantly in marketing and advertising, but I'm sort of [00:16:00] reading that and it sort of makes me a little bit frustrated because I'm thinking. Every single human being is a storyteller. Like we tell stories and you don't want as a, as a company, a small business, you don't want just the CEO telling stories [00:16:15] or mark or the marketing department generating stories.

[00:16:18] Gabrielle Dolan: You want all your employees to be storytellers and first of all, they are storytellers. And that's what, like I train people. We've just gotta make them more effective storytellers in business and knowing. [00:16:30] The right type of stories to share and how to share them so they're not going on for, you know, too long and they're, you know, they're getting the message across.

[00:16:37] Gabrielle Dolan: But we are all storytellers. And, and again, with even small business or large corporates, it's [00:16:45] anyone that's having an interaction with a customer, for example, or a client should, should be able to tell stories that demonstrate your brand, your values, your purpose, your vision, all that type of stuff.

[00:16:57] Chris Schwager: Where are they going wrong?

[00:16:59] Chris Schwager: Because [00:17:00] you and I could sit here all day and convince them to a blue in the face that they should be telling more stories and yeah, being more vulnerable and authentic. Is there a belief that a bad story can damage? The brand.

[00:17:14] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, [00:17:15] oh, oh, you know what? I don't think it's someone telling a bad story, as in that didn't work.

[00:17:22] Gabrielle Dolan: Could, could damage the brand as in a company. It could. Hang on. Let, let me, let me, let me answer that in two parts. [00:17:30] 'cause there was six. If you tell a story, and I say this in my workshops, right? I go, you, you might be trying to get across. Uh, the message around the importance of teamwork, and you might have a great story about that, but it was when you were 20 and you and your mates were doing [00:17:45] drug deals, probably not the story to share, right?

[00:17:48] Gabrielle Dolan: Because it could be damaging your individual brand and therefore the company brand. So you do have to be mindful of that. Originally you said, where do most people get it wrong? And saying, you know, we [00:18:00] can try to convince them to do it, but where do they get it wrong? I think. The main thing, they get it wrong.

[00:18:05] Gabrielle Dolan: And a lot of your listeners might be thinking this is, we already tell stories. So I, I speak to people and they go, oh yeah, we tell stories all the time. It's on our website. It's, [00:18:15] and I go, oh, give us a look. And I get in there and look, none of them are stories. None of them ev So they're thinking they've got all these stories and I look at them and go, which part of that is a story?

[00:18:27] Gabrielle Dolan: That's, that's, it's still your timeline [00:18:30] or it's a case study. So people confuse case studies with stories. Case studies are really valuable. I run a business on storytelling and absolute use case studies, but so I think they think they're already doing it, but they're not story, they're calling it a story that that's where they [00:18:45] go wrong.

[00:18:45] Gabrielle Dolan: They're just going, this is a story, and you go, no, it's not. It's not a story.

[00:18:50] Chris Schwager: Yeah, I mean now I'm rethinking my success stories tab on my website.

[00:18:55] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Yeah. So if you notice on websites, it's the About us Cha uh, the [00:19:00] About Us tab has changed to our story, and I guarantee you nine times outta 10, that is not a story.

[00:19:06] Gabrielle Dolan: I gu I could guarantee you. Nine times outta 10. It's not a story.

[00:19:10] Chris Schwager: So look, there's confusion and I think whilst you say people are [00:19:15] storytellers when it comes to telling a story in business, they don't. And look, this is a purely my opinion, have the skillset and the confidence to be able to tell that [00:19:30] story so that they can finally get over that little authenticity.

[00:19:35] Chris Schwager: Yeah, it's, it's vulnerability hump.

[00:19:38] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. It's, it's comes with anything if people, um, you know, first of all, it's sort of encouraging people [00:19:45] how powerful stories are, but I, I, you know, I started doing this 21 years ago, Chris and I spent half my. Most of my time in trying to teach people that stories are actually really powerful.

[00:19:54] Gabrielle Dolan: I don't have to do that so much more like very little now. So then it's a, then it's, [00:20:00] um, a process of giving them the capability. So how to do it, like how do you start your story? How do you end your story? How do you keep it really succinct? How do you keep your story to under 60 seconds? Um, you don't wanna be starting your story with, let me tell you a story [00:20:15] or.

[00:20:15] Gabrielle Dolan: The moral of the story is so how you do it, right? And then once you've done it right, that'll then, you know, once you've been taught how to do it properly, it'll give you the confidence to do it. And, and another thing where I see organizations getting [00:20:30] it wrong, because storytelling is becoming pretty popular at the moment, is they just go, right, we are gonna start using stories.

[00:20:37] Gabrielle Dolan: Everyone needs to start telling stories. It was like, well, are you gonna teach them how to do it? Like we wouldn't introduce a new, you know, software [00:20:45] program and just go, you gotta start using that without teaching them how to do it. Because we know, well that would be setting them up for failure. But I see more and more companies going, well, yet we're gonna tell stories and do not, um.

[00:20:56] Gabrielle Dolan: Teach them how to do it properly, and that's absolutely setting [00:21:00] them up for failure.

[00:21:01] Chris Schwager: Just quickly, if you are ready to take control over your video production, but feel stuck, check out the video Confidence Collective. It's live coaching in a supportive community that's got your back. We cover four essentials tech messaging on-camera presence and implementing what you learn so you can create [00:21:15] consistent, confident content that truly connects links in the show notes.

[00:21:18] Chris Schwager: Now, back to the episode. What is a story that every leader can have ready?

[00:21:27] Gabrielle Dolan: I reckon every leader needs, um, quite a [00:21:30] lot of stories. One is the first is, I would say, list all the values that you wanna be known for. So. You know, and you hope they're aligned to the company values, but even if they're not, right, what are, what is it that you want to be [00:21:45] known for as a leader?

[00:21:46] Gabrielle Dolan: And you need to have a story, a personal story for each one of those, why that's important. Um. I think it's also, I would, as a leader, if you're working for a company, why you, why you joined this company? What [00:22:00] excited you about this company? What, um, and for a small business owners, like why they started the business.

[00:22:05] Gabrielle Dolan: Oh my God, if there's gold in some of those small businesses, and the problem with small business owners is they go. [00:22:15] They, it's almost like we wanna get bigger and we don't want to make it about me. But if you are the founder and if you are the owner, then it's, it's, it's gotta be about you. And you've got, you don't wanna lose that.

[00:22:27] Gabrielle Dolan: It's what I call the creation story, or a lot of people call it the [00:22:30] origin story, for example. Right. I, um, I, I met someone at a dinner years ago. She owned, she owned quite a lot of um, uh, childcare centers in Queensland. And I was talking to her and I [00:22:45] said, oh, how'd you get into that? And she goes, well, I used to be a lawyer.

[00:22:47] Gabrielle Dolan: I think she used to be a dentist or a lawyer. I can't remember. Um, and she talked about how her and her husband like tried to have a, have a child for about 10 years and they finally had a child. And when she [00:23:00] was. I think the child's name was Jamie, right? So when she was looking for childcare centers, she'd go into one and go, Jamie wouldn't love this.

[00:23:07] Gabrielle Dolan: And then she'd walk into another one and go, Jamie wouldn't love this. And she goes, I just didn't find a childcare center that Jamie would love. So I [00:23:15] decided to buy one. And now every decision we make in the company is, would Jamie love this? And I just said to her, and I go, please tell me that that story is front and center on your website.

[00:23:28] Gabrielle Dolan: That that is the first thing I see. [00:23:30] Because could you imagine as a parent, you are looking for a childcare center? You would read that story and again, you would just go, well, they're going there. My, I'm taking my kid there. And, and she sort of said, oh no, we, I share the story [00:23:45] internally, but it's probably not appropriate to share externally.

[00:23:48] Gabrielle Dolan: It was like, oh my God. That would be the most powerful marketing attribute you would have.

[00:23:55] Chris Schwager: Last time we spoke about Ruth Handler. Do you remember that? Yeah. Barbie talking about the Barbie and all that. [00:24:00]

[00:24:00] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Wait,

[00:24:00] Chris Schwager: which, you know, now has, the movie has been released and I got to see, I know a little bit about that.

[00:24:06] Chris Schwager: Which is, which is,

[00:24:06] Gabrielle Dolan: yeah. Which

[00:24:07] Chris Schwager: is nice. Oh,

[00:24:08] Gabrielle Dolan: oh, I know, I know all about this. Yeah, it's, it's really interesting. So I, I'd, you know, I'd share that Barbie story in my keynotes and [00:24:15] my workshops, and then the Barbie movie came out and then I felt like I was jumping on the Barbie bandwagon. I was like, hang on a minute.

[00:24:21] Gabrielle Dolan: I wrote. This book two years before the Barbie. Yeah, the Barbie movie came out. But you know, that's a, that's again the great example of how [00:24:30] hearing how Barbie was created. I didn't know it. I used to hate Barbies. And then hearing that story completely changed my opinion of the brand Barbie.

[00:24:40] Chris Schwager: Okay. I've got a two part series.

[00:24:42] Chris Schwager: C coming up now. 'cause I'm gonna change. [00:24:45] I've just decided to change direction.

[00:24:47] Gabrielle Dolan: Right As you do

[00:24:48] Chris Schwager: here. It's as you do go here. It's, how do I tell my story?

[00:24:53] Gabrielle Dolan: Yep. That's, is that it? Is that the question? That's the question, right? You are, are you looking [00:25:00] for the framework coaching? I've, he's a coaching baby,

[00:25:06] Chris Schwager: right? This

[00:25:07] Gabrielle Dolan: is, this is a ploy. You got me on your podcast, so get just send, you don't even have a podcast, do you? This is let, no, no, no, no. Let, [00:25:15]

[00:25:15] Chris Schwager: let me give you some context around this because. Uh, you know, I, I, I made mention a little bit about, uh, what the, what's gone down between our last chat in 2021 and to now.

[00:25:25] Chris Schwager: Yeah, and I, I've told it many times on the, on the, on the show. Um. [00:25:30] But I think it mi it's missing, you know, it's, it's not part of our, our, of our business narrative. It's not front and center on the website. It's, you know, just like you said earlier, the details, the facts, the, the, the, the timeline, the what's in it, the [00:25:45] box type thing is, is really.

[00:25:47] Chris Schwager: You know, our, still our website. It's not,

[00:25:49] Chris Schwager: yeah, it's not

[00:25:49] Chris Schwager: story, it's not story focused. Um, and I'm just wondering, how do I incorporate that in, I mean, um, it's, it's, you talk about authentic, we talked about authenticity and, and [00:26:00] vulnerability. You know, there are moments where I've gone through and said, who would wanna listen to this?

[00:26:04] Chris Schwager: Like, why would this be interesting to others? So this. It's definitely sabotage going on there. Yeah. Um, and I'm sure that's not a unique thing. There's probably a lot of businesses

[00:26:14] Gabrielle Dolan: the same [00:26:15] thing. Well, it's, it's, it's every person too. Like when I, they, I go to, they go, but what, like, why would be anyone be interested in what my dad said to me or whatever?

[00:26:23] Gabrielle Dolan: And it was like, because that's what people are interested in.

[00:26:26] Chris Schwager: But yeah. So you crafted that Barbie story so succinctly and, and yeah. [00:26:30] So through your keynotes, what's my, what's my story? I can out, okay. Alright,

[00:26:34] Gabrielle Dolan: let's, let's, let's role model that and give you some free coaching advice. So first of all, two part.

[00:26:40] Gabrielle Dolan: I know. Yeah. Yeah. So, um. First of all, the, the first, the [00:26:45] question you asked me and I think is why I hesitated answering it, you said, how do I tell my story? And so the reason I hesitated is because you've got lots of stories. So how do you tell a story? Like how do you tell a [00:27:00] good story? But when people go, I don't have a story, they're looking for this big, like life changing.

[00:27:07] Gabrielle Dolan: Everyone has stories. Like everyone has stories. You, you could bloody, I could be looking out my window right now and watch something and it's a [00:27:15] story, right? But so how you craft a story now. So the story of your pretty much, well I was gonna say near death experience, but death.

[00:27:24] Chris Schwager: Yep.

[00:27:24] Gabrielle Dolan: And that's, that's, that's now was, is a strong part of your [00:27:30] narrative, I guess I hate the word narrative, but you know what I mean.

[00:27:33] Gabrielle Dolan: And so I, first of all, I would say, why are you sharing it? What, what do you wanna get across? Like, what value do you want to get across? Like, so when you had, when you had that experience and you almost had, you [00:27:45] came out thinking, right, I need to change things. For this reason, what to do. What I would say to you, what is that like?

[00:27:53] Gabrielle Dolan: Are you able to answer that? Like what?

[00:27:56] Chris Schwager: I was standing, I was sitting on my hands for many, many years, [00:28:00] particularly around business partner, my business partnership.

[00:28:03] Chris Schwager: Yeah. So

[00:28:03] Chris Schwager: for 10 years I sort of didn't really speak up about anything. And yeah, of course, you know, getting close to 50 and not really feeling that there was a, I put enough of a stake in the [00:28:15] ground and, yeah.

[00:28:16] Chris Schwager: That decision making really was kind of always coming with conditions like, oh, I'd check in with someone all the time. And so, yeah.

[00:28:22] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah,

[00:28:23] Chris Schwager: that in a business relationship was, was slow and in and inefficient and ineffective. And so [00:28:30] when, um, I'll tell you this story. Because it may resonate with you, but when I was in ICU, sorry, in, um, emergency, straight after us is like within two hours of, of, [00:28:45] um, my family finding me at the bottom of, uh, my pool, uh, my brother-in-law's pool.

[00:28:50] Chris Schwager: There was an overwhelming sense of urgency to do things differently and change and get on with it. Like, [00:29:00] I literally wanted to just get outta hospital and go. And that was that PTG statement I, yeah. Acronym posttraumatic growth. What's served me prior to this [00:29:15] will not serve me moving forward.

[00:29:17] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Okay.

[00:29:19] Gabrielle Dolan: And, and is that, is that sort of the message you give to clients too? It is. It's what, what's, what is, what has served you now will not serve you going and we need to create a bit of [00:29:30] urgency and decision making and courage and all that type of stuff.

[00:29:34] Chris Schwager: Okay. I, I, I deal with toxic. Patterns all the time in business.

[00:29:39] Chris Schwager: Procrastination, hesitation, self-doubt, stress. Yeah. Self clothing, imposter syndrome. [00:29:45] And so whilst I'm a video company teaching pillars of video success and performance and messaging and implementation, all these wonderful things, still the foundation of all that is mindset.

[00:29:58] Gabrielle Dolan: Yep.

[00:29:59] Chris Schwager: Okay. And [00:30:00] often people just need to get that straightened out and then the rest will flow.

[00:30:03] Gabrielle Dolan: Yep. Alright, cool. So I, so the, the, when it comes to, how do I tell this story better, the, where I always go with, well, what's your message? What are you trying to get across? So like, I, I [00:30:15] always had a bit, don't even worry about the story, what's the message? So you got the message. But we do have this story.

[00:30:20] Gabrielle Dolan: When it comes to telling the story, I, I've got a bit of a framework and the, the most effective way, and we don't, so we don't wanna do a timeline. We wanna avoid a timeline of [00:30:30] going, you know, I used to be this, I was this, then this happened, then this life changing thing happened. And now, right. I would start with, I would, I would imagine, I always say start with time and place.

[00:30:40] Gabrielle Dolan: Now, time and place. You don't, it could be like 10 years ago or when I was a kid, but with [00:30:45] something really significant with this, I would go with the exact date. So, do you know the exact date? Oh my, it was March. You might not. It was, it was March. Oh, you could? No, if you don't know

[00:30:56] Chris Schwager: 2023.

[00:30:58] Gabrielle Dolan: Alright. I was gonna say, if you don't [00:31:00] know the date, that's fine.

[00:31:00] Gabrielle Dolan: Don't have to go with it. But normally people go, yeah, I know exactly the date and time. Right. Okay, good. So you would start, you would start the story with, in March, 2023, I was at my brother-in-law's pool doing, what [00:31:15] were you doing?

[00:31:16] Chris Schwager: Breath holes, breaths, all my breath underwater

[00:31:19] Gabrielle Dolan: for, for any reason. She's, now, she's attacking me.

[00:31:23] Gabrielle Dolan: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:31:24] Chris Schwager: I'll, I'll be, I'll be straight up. So it was to have fun to, I was a bit into a bit of Wim Hof. Yeah. [00:31:30] Actually, this is the thing, I, I unpacking this, my dad had died previously in, uh, 10, roughly 11 years ago. I dunno the exact, uh,

[00:31:43] Chris Schwager: yeah.

[00:31:43] Chris Schwager: Exact year date, but. [00:31:45] That was, that was when I went, oh, he just, his life was cut short.

[00:31:49] Chris Schwager: He was only 80 and all of a sudden, now he's dead, so I'm gonna outlive dad. So my motivation was, oh, well I'll start eating better and drinking right. And doing things and [00:32:00] resting and, and Wim Hof ice baths and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Yep. So that was, that. This was all part of it. So when I was doing breath holds, it was to kind of show off a little bit, just like a kid would hold their breath under water.

[00:32:11] Chris Schwager: Mm-hmm. But also it was to challenge myself.

[00:32:13] Gabrielle Dolan: Okay, cool. So [00:32:15] we would, we wanna start with one sentence. Okay. And so we would, we would make more two sentences at the most. So you could be like, in March, 2023, I was at my brother-in-law's pool. You probably actually don't even need your brother-in-law unless it was critical.

[00:32:29] Gabrielle Dolan: You could just go, [00:32:30] I was in a swimming pool and I was practicing holding my breath because I, I was on this sort of like, challenging myself health kick. Right. So that could be, that could be the start. I, unbeknownst to me, I passed [00:32:45] out and I was dead for eight minutes, did you say?

[00:32:49] Chris Schwager: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:50] Gabrielle Dolan: It took, so you could say, unbeknownst to me during this, I passed out and I was, I, I was technically dead or whatever it was for eight minutes.

[00:32:59] Gabrielle Dolan: So [00:33:00] first of all, I was like, oh my God, that's got my attention. Now, you could very quickly go into, I remember waking up in emergency. Within two hours of emergency. I've never had this sense of urgency [00:33:15] to do things differently in my life, to the point where I was just wanting to get out of emergency because I just realized that the last 10 years of my life I had been stuck in, you know, and you can go into as much, you know, [00:33:30] I'm trying to say the words you said, the last 10 years of my life, I'd been making compromises.

[00:33:35] Gabrielle Dolan: I was in a toxic, um, pattern. Um. It wasn't serving me. And that moment made me realize I need to do something different [00:33:45] and I could not wait to get out of there. And then, then you could go on to, and it was the catalyst for changing the business to focus on this, to help other people change their mindset and give them the urgency to do [00:34:00] stuff differently.

[00:34:02] Gabrielle Dolan: That's it.

[00:34:03] Chris Schwager: The succinctness.

[00:34:04] Gabrielle Dolan: And so can you see how that is? That's probably a minute.

[00:34:07] Chris Schwager: Yes.

[00:34:07] Gabrielle Dolan: And if it's written on your website, um, it, it, the written format works really well, uh, as, as well, I should say. Um, you [00:34:15] just gotta be super succinct. Yeah. So it, it comes down to how to start time and place, one or two sentences, um, deciding what to put in the middle and what to leave out.

[00:34:25] Gabrielle Dolan: And that's the real tricky bit because people go, oh, no, well, that's important. I go, yeah, it, [00:34:30] it's sort of important, but this is why I start with what's the message. So if your, if your message is. Then you just, anything that's not related to that go just goes out and it doesn't, you know, and sometimes [00:34:45] it's, remember even I would say, you know, can you remember something you specifically did?

[00:34:49] Gabrielle Dolan: And even sometimes it's going specific like that. I remember, you know, saying to my wife or the doctor can, can I just leave now? Or whatever it was. Right? And so we are not making this up and we're not [00:35:00] exaggerating it. Only if this happened. Um, and then you go into and, and that's why I do now, I help people.

[00:35:07] Gabrielle Dolan: Change their mindset and do something different and whatever it is, but it's, it's landing on that message. Um, and [00:35:15] so yeah, the middle is you gotta be really, uh, disciplined with the information you're leaving because your stories really, ideally your stories wanna be about 60 or 90 seconds. So. This could easily be a 60 to 92nd stories.

[00:35:29] Gabrielle Dolan: Your [00:35:30] dog's agreeing with me. Um, and then the ending, the ending is you. How you don't want to end is so the moral of the story is

[00:35:39] Chris Schwager: mm-hmm.

[00:35:40] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, you should change your mindset and do something different. You don't wanna do that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:45] It's, it's, it, the ending should be quite respectful. To almost say, you know, and it with this, it's your story.

[00:35:52] Gabrielle Dolan: And you could just go, and it was the catalyst for me to change what I did to help other people, blah, blah, blah.

[00:35:57] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Great. That's it. So [00:36:00] succinctness, so what I'm getting at is the structure, the succinctness, and looking at things to cut out that aren't serving. Message or answer.

[00:36:10] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's one single message per story.

[00:36:13] Gabrielle Dolan: This is another mistake. This is [00:36:15] when we go back to the mistakes people make, this is another mistake. They try to, you know, for example, people go, I want a brand story. Like what, what? You're gonna communicate your entire brand in one story. Yes. It's just like, this is, this is, um, this story I would [00:36:30] say to you, Chris, is sort of your challenge story when something happened and how you responded.

[00:36:35] Gabrielle Dolan: Yes. Um. But you know, or potentially it's the creation story of your new business. I mean, it, it doesn't really, you don't have to sort of decide what type of story it is, but this is just one [00:36:45] story. It, it, it will become, if it hasn't already, it'll become one of your signature stories that this is the story you always share.

[00:36:53] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, and it may. Tweak slightly, but it's, it's always the story you share about the, you [00:37:00] know, whatever you want it to be, the mindset change.

[00:37:02] Chris Schwager: Mm-hmm. You know,

[00:37:02] Gabrielle Dolan: to me it could be around courage, it could be around decision making. Um,

[00:37:08] Chris Schwager: mm-hmm. Great

[00:37:09] Gabrielle Dolan: urgent urgency, whatever it is. But it was, it was the catalyst to go, [00:37:15] you know, not, I, I just can't keep doing this.

[00:37:19] Gabrielle Dolan: I'm, I'm wasting, I'm wasting life. I'm wasting opportunities.

[00:37:24] Chris Schwager: Which, which does tie in as like metaphorically to a lot of the people that I'm coaching [00:37:30] who are sort of just in limbo looking to the world of YouTube and AI and whatever else I can try and stumble on to, to build video confidence. And it's much like what I'm sure you see in [00:37:45] your.

[00:37:46] Chris Schwager: Clients that you get is just the vagueness and how lost they are, and uncertain about how to tell that story. And they talk about authenticity, but they actually don't really know where to start and what to leave out and what their core message is. And so, [00:38:00] so is that pretty much how you are helping people beyond, beyond the book, beyond Write writing, being a novelist.

[00:38:08] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:08] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, yeah, and look, it, it's what I love. I often, you know, what I love about my, the [00:38:15] work I do and the workshops, it's like people, you know, and they may say it straight after the workshop, but they, and they might say years after they see me and go, yes. That, that just changed the way I communicated.

[00:38:26] Gabrielle Dolan: It changed the way I led, it changed the way I influence people. [00:38:30] Um, it's giving them the confidence because I know if they go out and they share a story, even, even the ones that are still going, oh, storytelling. What a load of crap as if, you know, that would work. Yeah. They, they share it and they. And sometimes I get an email and they go, this, it [00:38:45] really worked.

[00:38:45] Gabrielle Dolan: Storytelling really works. I go, I know, I know. Um, and you know, sometimes you'll tell a story and it won't work. It's like, but you know, just it's probably because the story wasn't right or you went too long [00:39:00] or you're stuffed up the end. That's right. Um, but you know what I also say, I always say too, an okay story is better than no story, right.

[00:39:08] Gabrielle Dolan: You know, don't, we don't have to get it right. So yeah, your, and your, you know, again, your [00:39:15] message around your, going back to your, this story about the catalyst, it could be around, you know, I just, I just made the decision and I, and I didn't have all the answers, but I, I knew there was some urgency around it and I just did it, and that, and that all could, [00:39:30] could be a message for your clients to go, you don't need to be an expert at videoing now.

[00:39:34] Gabrielle Dolan: We just need to get some urgency and just make the decision and let's do it. And prioritize it. And, and, you know, and, and then you, and then, and that's like end of the story. Finish the story, [00:39:45] and then you can go on and talk about, you know, the, the services you do and how you help clients and stuff like that.

[00:39:51] Gabrielle Dolan: But you don't want to, you don't wanna bring that into your story. Make, make sure your story's separate. Yes. And then it could literally just be a pause. Um,

[00:39:59] Chris Schwager: yes. [00:40:00] Sit on its own.

[00:40:01] Gabrielle Dolan: Sit

[00:40:01] Chris Schwager: on its own. Tie it back to perhaps why they're here. Yeah. So this has been great information. Thank you so much for sharing that.

[00:40:08] Chris Schwager: And I believe that just by virtue of you workshopping that with me is, is relevant for people.

[00:40:14] Chris Schwager: [00:40:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, '

[00:40:15] Chris Schwager: cause it's a, that's a real life, you know, kind of a miniature

[00:40:18] Chris Schwager: Yep. I'm sure

[00:40:19] Chris Schwager: Example of what you might be doing for your clients in, in their workshops. Um, how do we, how do people engage in your workshops, by the way?

[00:40:28] Gabrielle Dolan: Uh, look, the, probably the best [00:40:30] way is to just contact me, so, especially if you wanna run an in-house, but the vast majority of the time I do in-house workshops. Um, so that's just via my website, Gabrielle dolan.com or LinkedIn. Um. I, I, I [00:40:45] occasionally run public workshops, but I'm as in, you know, if you've only got one or two people, uh, I run public ones, but I'm not doing them as much.

[00:40:54] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, I, I do, I do have a podcast. Uh, I, I have a podcast on my own. Well, I [00:41:00] co-host it called Keeping It Real with Jack and Rao, and there's a subscriber model on that. And I've just recently uploaded, uh, my strategic storytelling workshop and, um, powerful presentation workshop as part of that subscriber master classes.

[00:41:13] Gabrielle Dolan: So that, and [00:41:15] that's like value for money because the a year's subscription is less than what you'd be paying to come on the public workshop anyway. Um, but seriously, the, the book, uh, I I, I, I know I said I, I was never gonna write another storytelling book and I've just written one, but I [00:41:30] can. Very much say, me going into this was, I'm not writing another storytelling book again.

[00:41:35] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Never say never. And I feel like I've, I've put everything in here. I feel it's like everything like the, the process we just walked through. So the framework, how to start [00:41:45] your stories. Um, the four different types of stories you can share, the, and how to, how to find stories without ai. Find stories with AI and then a whole heap of like, there's over 25 examples of other people's stories, how they've used stories [00:42:00] in presentations, how they've used stories in sales, how they've used stories on social media.

[00:42:05] Gabrielle Dolan: Um, you know, so it's, it's sort of like everything, everything I know is in that book.

[00:42:11] Chris Schwager: So good. So good. Look, look, um, we're gonna make sure that [00:42:15] people get access to the, to some links there, um, to, to buy your books. So make sure that comes through and we'll include it in the show notes and you guys can go and check this out for yourselves.

[00:42:27] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Because Gabrielle is the master at it. Mm-hmm. [00:42:30] She's taught me a thing or two. I know. I look, I

[00:42:32] Gabrielle Dolan: look, I look

[00:42:33] Chris Schwager: forward

[00:42:33] Gabrielle Dolan: to reading the new version of your. Pull story on your website or on your buyer on LinkedIn. And you know, that's another thing too. It can be anywhere. Like I like, [00:42:45] okay Chris, I give you a challenge.

[00:42:46] Gabrielle Dolan: Here's a challenge. Write up this story and do it as a post on LinkedIn. And you might go, I've already shared it on LinkedIn, whatever. Share it again. Yeah,

[00:42:55] Chris Schwager: yeah, exactly. Re repetition is [00:43:00] the mother of skill. Is that right, Tony? Repetition. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I believe in it. Yeah. No, that's absolutely, and look, the, and you know, that's what we, we preach as well with, with video.

[00:43:12] Chris Schwager: You know, people aren't re-sharing and uh, [00:43:15] yeah.

[00:43:15] Gabrielle Dolan: No.

[00:43:16] Chris Schwager: Which for the latest, newest thing All the time and effort.

[00:43:20] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Or they think, oh, I don't wanna be annoying. I've already posted it once or twice. Yeah. Or it's like, I, I, I tell people that I work with that, that do that. I go, [00:43:30] I, um, I used to write a newsletter every week, so I'd write this newsletter every week that would go out to my database.

[00:43:35] Gabrielle Dolan: And I remember I, this woman, she goes, oh my God, I love your newsletter. She goes, yours is the only newsletter I read. She goes, I read it every month. And I went, thank you. [00:43:45] I go, but you know, I do write weekly. She goes, do you? And so like that, that, that is my research, but it's like, I reckon people are seeing a quarter of your stuff that you put out there.

[00:43:55] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and especially with all the bloody LinkedIn algorithms these days, they're probably [00:44:00] seen a 10% of the stuff you put out. Yeah. Yes.

[00:44:03] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Well, that's a, that's a lesson for all of you. Post more repost, more reshare your story. Get it out there. Use Gabrielle's framework to get yourself started and start.

[00:44:13] Chris Schwager: Start somewhere [00:44:15] and start. Make it start. Make it a start when, because when people hear your story, they're making a connection. Definitely and where you're building trust with you and your brand and uh, getting more visibility. Thank you so much Gabriel. It's Thanks, Chris. Wonderful.

[00:44:29] Gabrielle Dolan: Can I come back [00:44:30] in another four years?

[00:44:31] Chris Schwager: Oh, of course you can. Who knows what our story will be then. Oh, we can talk about other stuff then. I

[00:44:37] Gabrielle Dolan: don't know what we can talk about.

[00:44:39] Chris Schwager: I

[00:44:39] Gabrielle Dolan: might have another book by then. Who knows? Probably another three

[00:44:41] Chris Schwager: books.

[00:44:42] Gabrielle Dolan: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:44:43] Chris Schwager: exactly. Thanks for listening to the Video [00:44:45] Confidence Collective podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and subscribe to us on YouTube so you never miss an episode.

[00:44:52] Chris Schwager: For more resources, check out the show notes and follow me at Chris Schwager or Ridge Films and see you on the next episode.