Direct Response Marketing Strategies for Small Business Growth

[00:00:00] Chris Schwager: How do you stand out with a small business competing with giants who'll always win on price And most owners are stuck discounting, chasing scraps and wondering why their marketing fails to deliver real leads. And that's why today we're diving in to small business lead generation strategies that actually work ways to create offers.

[00:00:18] Chris Schwager: So irresistible your competi. Can't touch you, and my guest is John Dwyer JD from the Institute of Wow. He's a direct response marketing expert who's worked with names like Jerry Seinfeld, but more importantly, he's helped every day businesses just like you uncover what he calls their Happy Meal. Toya powerful incentive that pulls in red hot leads and drives growth.

[00:00:41] Chris Schwager: Let's have a listen to John Dwyer. Hi, I'm Chris Schwager, video coach and founder of the Complete Video Success System, and I've spent decades helping for. Professionals create high impact videos that build trust, generate leads, and drive business success. And if you've ever felt unsure or under-prepared, or just play an awkward with video, this is for you.

[00:00:59] Chris Schwager: I'll give you the mindset and strategies to take control, build video confidence so that you show up like a pro. It's time to make your videos work for you.

[00:01:09] John Dwyer: You know, I've been in the advertising marketing game since the 18 hundreds. So, uh, I've come from newspapers and, uh, magazines and uh, and radio stations now to, of course, you know, Facebook and Instagram.

[00:01:19] John Dwyer: But, um, nothing really has changed. Uh, when, about a dozen years ago, after providing my services mainly to corporate, um. So I would do all the sort of, you know, uh, monopoly style promotions from McDonald's and I'd do all the scratch bingos from Murdoch's newspapers and, uh, various radio stations I'd be doing promotions for.

[00:01:39] John Dwyer: So we had a corporate background of doing all of that with Westfield and seven 11 and so forth. And about a dozen years ago, I said to my wife, look, why don't we get this intellectual property and, you know, target it towards smaller businesses and do what Anthony Robbins does run out and, you know, do the seminar circuit.

[00:01:54] John Dwyer: And my wife said to me, look, shut up and just stick to what you're doing, uh, because they pay the bills and they're bigger businesses and being the moron that I am, uh, I said, no, no, no. Let's uh, throw all that in. Um, which of course is just a complete act of stupidity, uh, and go on the seminar circuit. So that's what we did.

[00:02:09] John Dwyer: And I remember walking out on the first. Time, uh, to about a hundred odd, uh, you know, business owners. And it was, I think Coff, RSL and I thought I was Justin Bieber. Oh, you know, I've got a hundred people in the room. Uh, and uh, I found I was the only person in the room with teeth. And uh, then I asked the ladies in the front row, what do you do?

[00:02:26] John Dwyer: And one was a life coach. One made garden noes and the other one was a psychic. And I said it morning tea to my wife, I'm gonna Bunnings. And she said, why? I said To buy some rope. What have we done? This is ridiculous. Right? And I had no clue how to relate to small businesses because I'd been in boardrooms.

[00:02:41] John Dwyer: And then I realized that the audience I had in front of me thought KPI was a new chicken chain. So, uh, I, I, I pretty quick smart because we needed to eat, uh, learned how to provide advice and recommendations to smaller businesses when it comes to sales. And you know, what I found though, Chris, is that, uh, smaller businesses don't really want the ideas, whereas big businesses do because they've got the ability to execute them.

[00:03:05] John Dwyer: Small businesses wanted it done for them. It's a bit like your business whereby you produce, you know, the videos and so forth for them, done for them. That's what I found. It took me a little while to work that out because I'm not that smart, but I found that, look, they love the ideas, but just do it for me.

[00:03:19] John Dwyer: So that's what we do these days.

[00:03:22] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Nice. And so what are the challenges with small businesses in Australia versus the internationally?

[00:03:27] John Dwyer: Pretty much the same mate. I mean, look, 96% of businesses in Australia are doing less than a million. And that same statistic, give or take 1%, uh, is in the, you know, the UK and the USA.

[00:03:37] John Dwyer: So really, you know, pretty much, let's say 95 for argument's sake, 95% of all businesses in all of their Western countries are doing less than a million dollars. And if they're, uh, then the stormy mom and dad and two or three other people. Uh, and so they don't have the time to implement all these great ideas that you and I might come up with.

[00:03:53] John Dwyer: 'cause we're so-called creatives. Uh, and I was an idiot. I was a moron because it took me a little while to work that out once I worked [00:04:00] it out that just give them the package so that they can just press go. Uh, then we started to make real money. Yeah.

[00:04:06] Chris Schwager: What's different about selling to Australians versus America?

[00:04:11] John Dwyer: Um, mate, I don't think too much really. There. It's not too much. We're, we're in a global society these days, courtesy of all the technology we have. So, yeah, not really. I mean, we have a, a, a promotion, which we give. A thousand dollars holidays to businesses for $50, and they give it away when they sell their product.

[00:04:29] John Dwyer: So it's a pretty good happy Meal toy. And the only difference is that in Australia, we market it as a holiday. In America, we market it as a vacation. So other than the vernacular, really, there's not a lot of difference really. You know, I, I'm on these sorts of podcasts with Americans all the time. And, um, you know, my advice to any small business is that if you're a hardware store and you're sitting opposite Bunnings.

[00:04:51] John Dwyer: You think you're gonna beat them on price, then you're on drugs. Okay. Because that's not gonna happen. And most small businesses do that. They, uh, they're a challenger brand, but they don't know it. They try and beat the 40 ton gorilla on price when in fact that's never, ever, ever gonna happen. And so I teach them how to take the focus off price and put it onto the value add and the value add that are the quickest ones are normally a Happy Mill toy.

[00:05:11] John Dwyer: So we say to them, look, you know, the little hardware store opposite. Bunnings, uh, if they say, look, you know, spend X dollars with me and I'll give you a free holiday, uh, then there's no way Bunnings can compete about against that. They, they would've six months worth of committee meetings to work out what to do.

[00:05:25] John Dwyer: But the only thing that Bunnings can do is beat you on price, which they. Promote. And so I say that to all businesses, you know, if you really wanna distinguish yourself from your competitors and you're in a me too industry, which pretty much everyone is a solar panel operator, has the same looking product as every other solar panel company, then, you know, come up with a Happy Meal toy, say to people, look, if you wanna buy my product versus my competitors, I will give you a reward.

[00:05:51] Chris Schwager: Okay, and direct spo, direct response marketing. You're the pro, you're the gun. For those that don't know on this channel. Yeah, what is it?

[00:06:01] John Dwyer: Okay. It is, uh, let me, let me, uh, be a, a a a very nuisance show off, and I'll show this to the camera, uh, the books that I'm have to write because when you're on the seminar circuit, you've gotta look like you've got half a clue, uh, is all about leads.

[00:06:15] John Dwyer: Okay? So that one there, of course, if you're listening to this, you're not watching it, then it's called the Avalanche Leads Formula. Um, and. Really at the end of the day, if you are in business and you find it difficult, difficult to convert, then perhaps you might go and get a job because really at the end of the day, you should be the one that's going to be the expert at closing.

[00:06:34] John Dwyer: But what you might find a challenge is getting leads. And so, you know, we, you know, we, that's what we do. We, we, we show people how to get a bucket load of leads. Uh, most people are giving Zuckerberg money, uh, for free, uh, and complaining about the fact that it doesn't work when in fact, in our instance, we just say to our clients, listen, why don't you hold a contest on Facebook or any other platform, but let's just say Facebook and give away your product or service as a prize.

[00:07:00] John Dwyer: And then whoever enters that contest on Facebook obviously is interested in your product. You don't try and win. Uh, uh, lawn Mowing Services if you live in an apartment. Okay. Uh, and the results of this are staggering. We've got clients that are spending about $30 a day, so that's two $10 a week, and they're getting a thousand leads a week.

[00:07:19] John Dwyer: We're talking a thousand leads a week. So in your instance, for example, you would give away a free, you know, video package. In my instance, it would be give away three months worth of consultancy with jd. A dentist only last month, uh, Western Australia came on board. He said, look, I wanna promote my Invisalign braces because, you know, they're five grand.

[00:07:37] John Dwyer: I've got good margin in them. Uh, and uh, I really want rich parents who wanna look after their children's crooked teeth. And he said, parents will spend more money on their children's crooked teeth than their own. So we just ran a Facebook campaign geo demographically targeted towards the rich people in his particular area of Perth.

[00:07:53] John Dwyer: And we just said, how would you like to win Invisalign braces, which is the invisible braces for your child? Uh, just click [00:08:00] here. They go through to an entry page, which basically clicks everything but their blood group. And then, uh, he then gives 1 0 8 and then, uh, he got a thousand leads in one way. He got 990.

[00:08:10] John Dwyer: 9 91 leads in one week and he spent $210, and all that happens is that his girl rings up and says, look, uh, good news and some bad news. You didn't win the Invisalign braces for your child, but obviously you are interested in getting them because you must have a child with crooked teeth. We've got a special deal for you at the moment.

[00:08:27] John Dwyer: If you actually get them by Friday, we're gonna give you a free holiday for the family. Shut the gates all over. So I make doc, I make Dr. Evil look really good.

[00:08:39] Chris Schwager: I got to, I got told during the week, uh, I'm a snake oil salesman. This is from a large corporate. I might add who is really who I, uh, uh. I am not doing business with no.

[00:08:54] Chris Schwager: Okay. So safe to say. Yeah. Um, now the reason why I say that is the thousand leads is good. Is it all about getting them to the holiday or is it about converting those thousand leads and then out of those thousand, how many were converted?

[00:09:12] John Dwyer: Okay. His girl could only get to a hundred and then she collapsed.

[00:09:14] John Dwyer: Um, and uh, and you see what I mean? I've gotta be careful. Uh, it sounds terrible to say feeding strawberries to pigs, but, uh, if I was to give this to a corporate, they would build a statue outside their head office of me. Okay? You give this to a smaller business and they start panting and go, I can't do this anymore, David.

[00:09:33] John Dwyer: Um, and of course you shoot yourself in the foot because, you know, you get someone a thousand leads in one week and they're red hot leads, they're not leads, they're red hot leads of people who've got a child with crooked freaking teeth, you know? Uh, and they almost abuse you and go, you gotta stop, stop the campaign, you know?

[00:09:47] John Dwyer: Terrific. I just had a client for a week. I just created a David Copperfield Miracle for them, and they think I'm a nuisance. So, uh, despite. That, uh, we've worked out a way to do it. Uh, and what we do now is we get people in, on a, on an eight week program, and we have a preliminary draw every Friday. Uh, and that means that that person will be one of eight people who are in the final draw.

[00:10:08] John Dwyer: And all of the people who entered in that first week can't enter again so that there's only one entry per person, which means it gives the business the opportunity on the Monday to ring up all of week in week two to ring up all of week one's entries and say, look, you didn't win. You can't enter again.

[00:10:21] John Dwyer: That's where you've got this special deal. Right? Right. The funny part about it though is this girl rang a hundred before she collapsed and uh, she had a 12% conversion rate. So outta the hundred she sold, she sold outta a hundred that she rang. She got 12 times five grand, which is pretty good. Yeah. Uh, and we, uh, said, okay, we'll put our AI robot, oh, we have a division called a I Genie, and like everyone does these days, and so therefore, uh, we just put her onto the case.

[00:10:44] John Dwyer: So the robot rang up the rest of the 900 and got a 17%. Conversion rate,

[00:10:50] Chris Schwager: so, so how many people you got running this in the, in your team? Oh, mate, I outsource everything. I mean, we're only relatively,

[00:10:55] John Dwyer: you know, small business and so before, you know, really I just do deals with, you know, I've got a Facebook guy that I've been dealing with now for six years, so he's family.

[00:11:03] John Dwyer: Uh, I just deal with him and basically we share the revenue and likewise, uh, I mean we, I'll come up with the ideas or, you know, work with the team to come up with the ideas and, uh, then what we'll do is that we'll partner with, in the instance of ai, we partnered with the San Francisco company that provides the robots to us.

[00:11:18] John Dwyer: And, uh, yeah, we use them. I mean, at the moment. Right at this very moment today, we're ringing 10,000 homes in a particular postcode area and the robot's doing them, um, 'cause a human couldn't do it. And, uh, the real estate company that we are doing this for, basically, you know, I, I I look at real estate agents and I say, look, are you on drugs?

[00:11:37] John Dwyer: Because they put this stupid leaflet in our letterbox that says, look, we've got buyers in the area. We need to know what the value of homes are. Would you like us to come in and give you a free, you know, valuation? I said, why do you do that? I mean, out of 10, you know, appraisals, how many listings do you get?

[00:11:51] John Dwyer: And they go, oh, probably three, maybe four. Well, why don't you just give out a million appraisals? And they said to me, well, how. AI robots. So our [00:12:00] robot rings and says, uh, hello Chris. Um, just phoning you from, uh, real estate research division. Uh, did you know you're sitting on $1.8 million? And you go, your head explodes.

[00:12:09] John Dwyer: You go, what? Well, you are sitting on one eight. That's the latest evaluation of your property. Would you like us to send a local agent along to actually confirm that in writing? Who's gonna say no? So all of a sudden we say to these real estate agents, it's all about scaling. It's all about. It's all about that.

[00:12:24] John Dwyer: It's all about the avalanche scaling because if you close three out of 10 to get a listing and meaning you'll sell their home, then just do get more, lots of 10, get a million of them, you know?

[00:12:35] Chris Schwager: Mm-hmm. So, so it's, it's aggressive and I like it. And, and I do wonder for a, an average small business, how they would engage.

[00:12:47] Chris Schwager: In something like this to get those types of results. How do they start?

[00:12:53] John Dwyer: Uh, mate look. Um, and I, this is self-serving Chris, and you'd say the same thing when it comes to video production and so forth. You know, give it to someone who's been doing this for a long while. Don't give it to a 22-year-old. They, uh, I mean, I, I always say to people, particularly when you reach at, you know, my age and, uh, you're a baby boomer, uh, and you've got six children, three of which are sarcastic and keep on calling a boomer.

[00:13:12] John Dwyer: Uh, I keep on saying to anyone in the audience of my seminars or webinars, if you do, you need a heart transplant for your business. In other words, more sales. And they go, yes. Okay, well let's just say you needed a heart transplant for yourself. Would you choose the 25-year-old who just got outta medical school?

[00:13:27] John Dwyer: Who says, you know what? I haven't done one of these before, but I'm gonna give it a hell of a shot. Or the guy my age who does it for 40 odd years in his sleep. And of course the answer is the latter. Uh, and I know that sounds self-serving, but it's the truth. You know, if you don't have a few wrinkles, then unfortunately the wisdom of many years of doing this isn't there.

[00:13:42] John Dwyer: So in our instance, whenever I'm preaching our stuff, I just say. We've made a lot of mistakes when I was in my twenties and thirties and maybe even the early forties. But these days we make less mistakes because we have done this a million times over. So I would say to people, if you've got a sore tooth, go to a dentist.

[00:13:58] John Dwyer: And if it's not me, it's you or someone else. Go to someone who's got a history of making this stuff happen. Yeah, and give it to them. Do not try and do it yourself. I'm the worst handyman in the world. I cannot, I don't even know what to do with a screwdriver. I go to, I go to Bunnings of a weekend just to look like a man.

[00:14:13] John Dwyer: Um, but I dunno what to do. So give it to an expert.

[00:14:16] Chris Schwager: Every business needs to identify the problem first, and then of course coming to you for the solution. Are you helping them through some of the things that they'd like to achieve to, you know, to, to ultimately grow their business? Is, is that the, the formula that you are creating, this kind of problem, solution?

[00:14:34] John Dwyer: Yeah, mate. Yeah, look what we did. The consultancy can be a punish, um, because as I said, you know, the implementation for small business is not all that flash. Uh, although those who have imple implemented it, you know, go, I mean this, this thing here, uh, this all came about the holiday voucher because I had a banking client here in Australia some years ago.

[00:14:53] John Dwyer: It was called The Greater Building Society. Uh, you're in Sydney, mate, aren't you, Sydney? Well, you probably wouldn't have heard of them. They're mainly in, you know, Gosford, new South Wales, uh, leading up to Queensland. So they're in regional areas. They're the 250th biggest, uh, bank in Australia, biggest business in Australia.

[00:15:08] John Dwyer: Uh, but that doesn't mean to say that they're a shadow on the CommBank or Westpac. So therefore they called me in and said, look, can you have a look at what we're doing? And I said, yeah, you're on drugs. Um, basically what you're doing is selling home loans at whatever it was, 4.8% at the time. The Commonwealth Bank will be 4.7% before, you know, within five minutes.

[00:15:24] John Dwyer: They, they're gonna beat. It's like the hardware store in Bunnings. Why take on the 40 ton gorilla on price? And I was doing some KerryAnn uh, commercials, uh, infomercials at the time, uh, for a travel discount company. So I said to the, uh, I said to the, uh, the, the bank or the building society, I can introduce you to a travel discount com company.

[00:15:43] John Dwyer: Why don't you give up your 1% honeymoon rate and give it to them and they'll give you a massive discount on holidays. And they said, whatcha talking about? I said, you need a Happy Meal joint. I said at the moment, you know, if I get half a million dollars or a few, it looks the same as if I get it from the Commonwealth Bank.

[00:15:55] John Dwyer: So where, what do I care where I get it from? But Cadbury Chocolate does taste different from no name. [00:16:00] Okay, but you're not in that game. The half a million dollars is half a million dollars. I don't care where I get it from. So why don't we bribe people to leave their bank and come across to you with a Happy Meal toy?

[00:16:09] John Dwyer: And I've got. Courtesy of the KerryAnn stuff, uh, this travel company that'll give you a 10,000 holiday for five. So they said, okay, smartass, give it a shot. So anyway, that's what we did. I introduced them and uh, before you know, long we had get a home, now, get a free holiday, come on tv. It went ape shit. It went absolutely nuts.

[00:16:26] John Dwyer: They call center went from 14 ladies to. 39 ladies within like a week just answering the phone. Thirteen, thirteen eighty six. I can remember the number after all this years. Uh, and we just came on TV and we showed people at a bank in tone, black and white. They were not happy and they were getting beaten up with fees.

[00:16:41] John Dwyer: And then of course we say swap across your home loan to the Greater Building Society. And there was pictures of, uh, the Gold Coast beach with blue skies and pretty people. And then after three or four years of that going nuts and they made billions and billions and billions of dollars worth of extra home loans.

[00:16:55] John Dwyer: And this more on, you are talking to charge a consultancy fee instead of a percentage. So I'm an idiot. Uh, I got Jerry Seinfeld to do the ads and so therefore we went backwards and forwards to New York for a few years and I got Seinfeld to do the ads. And then when we came on TV in Australia and social media and Jerry Seinfeld saying, get a homeowner, get a free holiday.

[00:17:13] John Dwyer: It went through the stratosphere, and as a result of Seinfeld being involved, this company rang me up and said, look, we're a travel company and we've got access to unsolved rooms right around the world and in Australia. Would you like to actually package this up and give these a thousand dollars, three night vacations to people, to business owners to use as a Happy Meal toy?

[00:17:31] John Dwyer: And I went, hallelujah. So that's what we do. We provide these $1,000 vouchers to businesses to hand out when they sell their refrigerator or lawn mowing services, and they give us 50, $50. Nice.

[00:17:42] Chris Schwager: So great success stories there. And I'm curious to just spin this a little bit. Say I'm a small business owner.

[00:17:53] Chris Schwager: We sell desktop video studio equipment and video coaching to professionals coast to coast and Australia, New Zealand, and the states. How do I engage your service and what would be the cost associated with it?

[00:18:05] John Dwyer: It comes in a brown paper bag at the back of a shelter shed. Um, and you just stash cash in there.

[00:18:11] John Dwyer: Uh, and uh, and of course, and of course, uh, yeah, we just, we part ways. Uh, Hey, Chris, before you've, you've, you've been in the infomercial game yourself, haven't you? In the what, sorry? At the infomercial game yourself. Have you been in that?

[00:18:26] Chris Schwager: No. No. So we've been in, uh, video marketing for about 23 years under this company, and then the last five years we've pivoted after COVID into, uh, video equipment installation and coaching service and Gotcha product.

[00:18:41] John Dwyer: Gotcha. Now, I thought maybe you might've been in infomercials as well, because obviously, you know, these days, um, it's all online, or not, not all online, but a lot of it's online. But I thought you might've gone into that.

[00:18:51] Chris Schwager: We, we, we've just kind of pivoted out of just standard corporate video production for companies and now sort of passed that over to some of our partners.

[00:19:02] Chris Schwager: Who are better equipped to do that and really focus our attention now on, you know, kinda what, what you're seeing here, which is the desktop video studio. We install these for all types of small business professionals. Usually small business, they're our, they're our favorites. Yeah. Gotcha. Um, and that they can access this anytime they want at their convenience of their desk.

[00:19:18] Chris Schwager: And we just set it all up for them and then we coach them through how to, how to talk, how to get your message straightened out tech and, and how to implement it properly.

[00:19:26] John Dwyer: And, you know, I'll give notes. You know, mutual admiration society with these things sometimes. But I mean, I'll give you credit because when I looked at your website, you follow the problem solution scenario, which is what direct response is all about.

[00:19:37] John Dwyer: It's highlighting their problem and then, you know, providing them with the solution. So your before and after stuff is exactly, exactly what people should be doing.

[00:19:44] Chris Schwager: Thank you for checking me out. I feel, uh, I feel a lot of love coming down the line right now.

[00:19:49] John Dwyer: No, really? It was one of my people, but thanks, uh, Julie for that.

[00:19:51] John Dwyer: Thank you. No. His name. His name is Chris, not Paul. Okay.

[00:19:56] Chris Schwager: Oh man. I'm surprised they're, they're even in the room, mate. Philippine, [00:20:00]

[00:20:00] John Dwyer: it's funny, you know, when you present a certain aura online, uh, a lot of which of course is exaggerated, it's amazing. Sometimes I have people say, am minds talking to the real jd.

[00:20:10] John Dwyer: I go, oh look, I'm not that important. That's just all a face, alright? And it's ai. It wasn't really me.

[00:20:15] Chris Schwager: Just quickly, if you are ready to take control of your video production, but feel stuck, check out the video, confidence collect. DITs live coaching in a supportive community that's got your back. We cover four essentials tech messaging on camera presence and implementing what you learn so you can create consistent, confident content that truly connects links in the show notes.

[00:20:33] Chris Schwager: Now, back to the episode.

[00:20:34] John Dwyer: Um, yeah, so yeah, no, you've done well with that and, and look at the end of the day. There's five components to this thing called direct response, uh, marketing. And, uh, number one is problem. Uh, and let's take an example. Are you overweight, not feeling good about yourself? Number two is aggravate that problem.

[00:20:50] John Dwyer: Do you know that summer's just around the corner? Do you wanna look good in a swimsuit? Number three is to give them the magic solution, and that is go on this dietary program and you look like a supermodel within 30 days. Number four is normally proof, and that's normally testimonials, you know, before and afters.

[00:21:03] John Dwyer: Uh, the lady that was overweight now looks like a supermodel. And then number five, a strong CTA, which is call to action. And normally that call to action. Unfortunately, uh, when people get that fifth one wrong, uh, they lose because they mark it on price. But if you actually say, look, get in by Friday and I'll give you a Happy Meal, join.

[00:21:20] John Dwyer: Uh, can I just say, Chris, before. I mentioned how respond to what you said with regards to your business. And I know you were talking metaphorically with your game. You're talking about any business. Um, but no, I'm talking about

[00:21:31] Chris Schwager: my business.

[00:21:32] John Dwyer: Yeah. Help me, help me, bro. I need more leads. It's all, it's all about you, Chris.

[00:21:37] John Dwyer: Of course. Yeah. Um, but, uh. But yeah, so therefore, uh, it gets funny mate, at the building Society, um, because I'm a smart ass and it looks like you might fall into that sarcasm category as well. When the whole thing took off and I got Seinfeld, uh, you know, I just pretended that my head got too big. And, uh, so we were in know meetings around the boardroom table and they keep in mind these guys are bankers, right?

[00:22:00] John Dwyer: They're pretty boring, right? And, uh, I was on TV making. The Greater looked very different from all the other banks, but really behind the scenes they were just another bank. But you know, we made sure that they looked different on tv, which is what you do when you're in advertising. And they would say some of the.

[00:22:18] John Dwyer: I dunno how I had the guts to do it, but I said, just excuse me for a minute. And they had lights hanging out from the ceiling. So I jump up, I take my shoes off, but I jump up on the boardroom table and adjust the lights so it would just hit my chair. No one else's. I said, I just wanna highlight to you, yes, I am good.

[00:22:31] John Dwyer: I'm different from you people. Um. But yeah. So in terms of the direct response stuff, yeah, that call to action at the end is the mistake a lot of people make because they just sell their George Foreman barbecue, whatever it might be on price. And so therefore, on that CTA, the call to action at the very end, make sure that you are different from all of your Me too competitors by offering something that's outside of price.

[00:22:53] John Dwyer: And you know what the crazy part about it? As the Kellogg's have done it for about 50 years, McDonald's have done it for, you know, 44 years. I happen to know the people who come up with a Happy Meal toy. They live in Trump Tower these days. Um, and, uh, you know, uh, you know, Amazon do it with their prime membership.

[00:23:10] John Dwyer: Uh, the local coffee shop down the road, does it get nine coffees? Get the 10th one for free. So the crazy part about it though, put coffee shops aside. But 97% of businesses have never used an incentive in their entire career. 97% of businesses don't, or they do something stupid like sushi train, where when you go to sushi train, they'll give you points based on what you spend.

[00:23:31] John Dwyer: And you can only spend those points on sushi. I'm gonna sound like Seinfeld, but how much sushi can you eat? You know? Uh, so they would be smart if they gave you the opportunity to cash those points in for a movie pass. Not more sushi. So the thing is, you know, don't give away your product as the reward.

[00:23:49] John Dwyer: Give away something that suits your target audience. Nice.

[00:23:52] Chris Schwager: Okay. And in your

[00:23:53] John Dwyer: instance, really that Facebook contest formula would be absolutely perfect for you, but probably on LinkedIn. [00:24:00] Uh, and so therefore, you know, you would give the opportunity for, um, business owners to enter a contest to win your lump, whatever that is.

[00:24:08] John Dwyer: Uh, and if you want stop studio. Yeah, yeah. You, you give it away and, uh, you know, uh, I mean, if ever I wanna beef up our consultancy stuff, um. I would just run something on Facebook and LinkedIn and it would just say like, this guy's worked with Seinfeld and Michael Jordan and this, that, and the other. So built myself up.

[00:24:27] John Dwyer: So that list I, I look like it might be something of value to win. And then I'll say, if you'd like to win a month's worth of consultancy with this guy, click here. They go through to a landing page and there's all the nice stuff about me. And they fill that in. Um, nobody is entering that contest if they don't have a business and nobody's entering that contest if they're not interested, if they're not interested in making more sales.

[00:24:46] John Dwyer: So all of a sudden I will get 50 to a hundred leads and, uh, we'll siphon through them to work out what, you know, who might be tire kickers and what would be an industry that I really, you know, can't add a lot of value to it. And then we make contact with the rest of them.

[00:25:00] Chris Schwager: So in the instance of me as an example, I guess, or our business as an example, and this is something that has RAs me because I kind of subscribe a bit to the Gary Vaynerchuk, uh, his stories and details a lot about, you know, driving halfway across the country or whatever to deliver a couple of boxes of wine and those types of things are.

[00:25:21] Chris Schwager: Or given away jerseys and things like that. I've, I've heard some of these stories and they, and they, they raz me up because, you know, how do I bundle our package to someone that really needs it and, you know, leverage off the back of that as some kind of competition or giveaway or whatever and, you know, just to really in increase visibility, ultimately increasing visibility, and therefore more lead flow.

[00:25:49] Chris Schwager: Got any advice on, on that? We, we have a fairly high ticket item, sort of 15, 20 grand. How do we, how do we do something like that? Um, that RAs, you know, the market.

[00:26:03] John Dwyer: Yeah, mate, look, I'm not big on, uh, faces on the side of buses or the backs of taxis or sponsoring the Linwood football team. And the reason I'm not is because if you don't fall into the Coca-Cola or uh, Nike category, then yet, uh, and so to me, you know, getting your name out there is.

[00:26:19] John Dwyer: Pretty irrelevant in this day and age whereby you can go on Google and, you know, choose any one of a thousand competitors within two seconds. Um, and the audience that we're talking to, and I suspect much of the audience you are talking to, uh, because, tell me if I'm wrong, but you're not dealing with Coca-Cola or Woolworth say it?

[00:26:36] John Dwyer: No. Okay. Right. So would most of your clients be doing south of two or three mil? Yep. Okay. Yeah. And so therefore, I say to those people, look, um, uh, I mean, I personally have never ever, I was the national marketing guy for Woolworths a long, long time ago. And, uh, you know, Woolworths used to sponsor a whole bunch of stuff and I used to ask them why at the board level.

[00:26:56] John Dwyer: They said I'd get our name out there. I said, yeah, but is it measurable? You know? And uh, the answer is that it wasn't. Um, but the ad agency that they were using until, you know, I created a little bit of discomfort, um, was sponsoring everything that moves. I mean, it wouldn't matter whether it was the Bathurst 1000 or whether it was the Grand Final or whatever.

[00:27:13] John Dwyer: They had the name plan. I mean, I can ask a thousand people and I guarantee you 999 of them will say no. Um. Do you know the sponsors of your rugby league or a FL football team? Um, and, uh, because the logo is the size of a, you know, ace of diamonds on their jumper, has that ever motivated you, motivated you when you're watching the Gabi?

[00:27:31] John Dwyer: Oh look, I must ring that, you know, bloody pizza hunt. Um, it's just. Something that the big brand agencies have been able to sort of, I guess, exploit. Because a lot of the people, most people when they go to college or university to learn how to be whatever they are, no one's ever taught them how to get customers.

[00:27:47] John Dwyer: No one's ever taught them about marketing and, and absolutely no one's ever talked to 'em about direct response marketing. So they're great technicians, they're good butcher baker or candlestick maker, but guess what? They dunno how to get customers. And these branding agencies come [00:28:00] along and say, oh, we've gotta get your name out there.

[00:28:02] John Dwyer: And the traditional. Uh, agency advertising agency will say, look, we'll show you how to get people to, you know, fall in love with your brand so that they'll taste your product. We say the opposite. We'll get them to taste your product so they'll fall in love with your brand. And I think for a small business, that's what you want.

[00:28:16] John Dwyer: Because if you go home tonight and say to the kids around the table and empty table, daddy just got 200 likes today. The kids are probably gonna say, daddy, there's no food on the table. Is there any chance you could turn those likes into dollars? You know, um, so I'd say in your instance, because you are a high ticket line, two things.

[00:28:33] John Dwyer: Number one, do you have a finance plan for these small businesses or they gotta cough up to 15? Finance. You do. Okay. Right. And is that internally, so it's like

[00:28:41] Chris Schwager: a credit, credit finance company? Yeah. Externally. Is that

[00:28:44] John Dwyer: internally or you have someone that does that for external? Yeah. Yeah. We doubled our conversion rates by being a company on board called Procure It Pro.

[00:28:51] John Dwyer: Procure it. And uh, yeah,

[00:28:53] Chris Schwager: we we were using that as a guys, guys early on. Yeah. They went under, did they?

[00:28:57] John Dwyer: No, there was rumor that they had, uh, and I was a bit worried they were just refinancing. So therefore they're, um, I, I got an email from them. We used them, so therefore we would've known if they'd gone under.

[00:29:07] John Dwyer: Um, but yeah, they, uh, they just sent an email out in the last fortnight to say that they're bigger than Benhur now. They got Ed. Refinancing and blah, blah blah, but that, that doubled our conversions. Uh, and it's just a tip for anyone watching this or listening to it who are B2B like Chris and I are, uh, if you're b2c, there's Afterpay and a million other hums and whatever, but b2b, there's not that many of them.

[00:29:27] John Dwyer: And, uh, they doubled our conversion rate because if we were selling something for five or 10 grand, then they could pay with over four or five months, which is yeah, so much good. Um, mate, in, in your instance. Yeah, I seriously would just consider, um, that contest formula now, whether it's through LinkedIn for you rather than Facebook or Instagram.

[00:29:43] John Dwyer: Around that, you know, obviously that's for you to choose in terms of your target audience, but you just won't get hotter. I mean, we, we had, um, we had a company called, uh, rapid Medical here on the Gold Coast. They saw walking frames. Okay. And, uh. I was insulted by the guy that owned it because he was sarcastic and said, did I wanna do a culture?

[00:30:04] Chris Schwager: So I'm sure that's not true, but that was what I was thinking. Yeah.

[00:30:08] John Dwyer: So I, I said to him, I hope he died in his sleep. But, uh, anyway, so we put together the Facebook campaign and, um, I thought to myself, look, this is gonna be a role of the dice because how many of these people in the seventies and eighties are, you know, on Facebook?

[00:30:20] John Dwyer: Guess what, 822 leads in one week. At $40 a day. So he was 40 multipli by seven, eight hundred and twenty two leads. And again, his girl rang 50 or 60 or 70 of them and collapsed. Uh, and then we put the robot on to close the rest. Uh, so, you know, like that is such a clever idea, uh, because it is attracting only your prime target audience.

[00:30:44] Chris Schwager: Can I be clear? What was the, what was the, the current that actually got those leads again? What did you do with the walking frame? Well,

[00:30:50] John Dwyer: yeah, we, we just said to 70 and 80-year-old people or their children who might be in their forties or fifties. How would you like to, uh, win a walking frame worth $800.

[00:31:00] John Dwyer: And they, they were called wheelie walkers. That was the name. And so they just simply clicked the ad, went through to a landing page where we gave them, uh, all the details. We made sure the font was larger than normal size, but, um, yeah. So, uh, yeah, so we got 822, let's call them pensioners that entered that contest that week.

[00:31:17] John Dwyer: And you don't enter a contest to win a walking frame if you're a 25-year-old athlete that goes to the gym. Okay? So, you know, it, it doesn't deliver leads, it delivers red hot leads. I, I'm loving it.

[00:31:29] Chris Schwager: Right. I'm loving it. Now, the one question I I want to ask is rules around contests or gaming. Yep. Yep.

[00:31:41] John Dwyer: Uh, they're much more relaxed than what they used to be, and that sounds crazy in the world that we live in, where there's more rules for everything these days than there used to be.

[00:31:47] John Dwyer: But, uh, back in the day when I was doing all the scratch bingos for Murdoch's newspapers, we did all the scratch bingos for them and for, you know, all the fast food chains and so forth. Um. Yeah, you had to really jump through a whole bunch of [00:32:00] hoops to get a permit number. So therefore, each state has a, uh, laies division where if you are running what they call a trade promotion, you have to pay them ransom money and they'll, they'll give you a permit number, right?

[00:32:09] John Dwyer: Uh, these days, uh, most of the states don't have permits, uh, anymore, so therefore they've left it up to basically you to do the right thing. Um. Yeah, so really that's it. I mean, you know, if you are in, uh, new South Wales where they still have permit numbers, then you've gotta go and get a lottery permit number.

[00:32:24] John Dwyer: Uh, we look after all that for everyone 'cause we, you know, do it in our sleep. Um, but as long as it's absolutely legit. I mean, you don't need a permit if it's based on skills. So if you say, look, you know, right in 50 words or less why you like our product, or why you'd like to win it, that's what's called a game of skill.

[00:32:40] John Dwyer: And then you would give the prize to the person who you believed had the best. 50 word reason. Um, but you don't wanna do that. You don't wanna put people through heartache, just get 'em to fill the form in and get the permit number, you know, the permit number. Normally, if it is a state that where the, you need permit numbers, it'll cost you two or $300.

[00:32:56] John Dwyer: It's not a big deal.

[00:32:57] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Nice, nice. And a lot of, is there any requirements around, around getting that permit? Like, uh, you know, for and shit like that? They,

[00:33:05] John Dwyer: they do prefer that you're not wearing an ankle bracelet, uh, because that tends to, uh, that tends to give the game away. Uh. And you're not on any wanted posters?

[00:33:14] John Dwyer: No, not really, mate. I mean, at the end of the day, it's really, really straightforward. Uh, it's just get them to, and Facebook have rules, uh, about this stuff. And we've never had one of our co We do lots and lots and lots of these. We've never had one locked back. I mean, we know how to do it, of course, but yeah, it's not that cumbersome.

[00:33:29] John Dwyer: Uh, and in your instance, really where you wanna flush out people who are after that. And I don't know, I mean, in my instance, if I had to start my career again. I would just do marketing for car dealerships or marketing for dentists, or marketing for something. I'm an idiot because, you know, I did A to Z, which meant that I can hang up a phone call talking on Zoom these days from someone who might be a funeral parlor, and then I've gotta switch my brain to a car dealership within, you know, five minutes later.

[00:33:54] John Dwyer: And because I've done a z you know, it'd be silly for me to sort of niche down now, but you know, um, if I had to start again, I'd say, look, use all of these principles and niche down to one industry because it's rinse and repeat. It'd be really easy for me compared to a z. So let me ask you this question.

[00:34:09] John Dwyer: In your instance, do you have two or three or four major industries that you get most of your business from or is it across the board?

[00:34:17] Chris Schwager: We target. Specific industries, but we do get a very broad range. So, I mean, like the, the, the, the one that RAs me recently was a horse guy, horse syndicate guy in Perth.

[00:34:30] Chris Schwager: And he contacted us in like December, November last year. And I was like, ah, what's this guy new video for? Right. And then he, he is on and he is one of one of our favorite. Uh, members in the video Confidence Collective Coaching. He is got his studio up and running over there in Perth and he is banging out.

[00:34:45] Chris Schwager: He's banging out videos in response to inquiries, so he does what we call reply inquiry videos and proposal walkthrough videos, which is really great converting. Wow. As well. He is his claims. He is, he's closed four, four grand. He is only had the kit for a couple of weeks. Wow. Um, and so, yeah, our thing combined with your thing could be really, really powerful.

[00:35:04] Chris Schwager: Right? Like, um, again, video is, is such a compelling reason to, um, engage. And you adding that elements of humanization instead of just form fill, like form filled with a face, right? Like, um, you know, is. It can, can be, uh, uh, powerful as well. So yeah, we, we are dealing less, well, not less, I just say we, we are complimenting, you know, the world of video marketing with really the world of sales, you know, video sales now, because it's, nobody does it for one.

[00:35:31] Chris Schwager: And also, um, it's easy. It's a fairly easy thing to do. It's just, it takes just a bit of implementation and anybody could do, as long as they've got access to the kit and the, the skillset to be able to bang out videos quick, that's what we're there to help 'em through. So, and I think

[00:35:45] John Dwyer: your sister, oh, well before I ask you this question, uh, is when you tell me the guy is in the horse industry, do you ever have that temptation during Zoom meetings to go.

[00:35:56] Chris Schwager: I couldn't help I up. He's, he's actually really charismatic [00:36:00] on camera and I always geo him up and say, uh, yeah, lay that Ozzy woolly. You know, like he's, he's, he's like that guy, but he's, he's got it, he's got it going on. This's charisma. He just needs to skill up on his computer skills and his implementation skills.

[00:36:13] Chris Schwager: But that's what we're working with him. Uh, hey Chris, when

[00:36:15] John Dwyer: I, whenever I do webinars now, and it used to be seminars of course, but courtesy of COVID, we're mainly doing webinars, uh, and this sort of thing, podcast. I would always say to them, listen. Please. Uh, the gags that I have throughout the day is purely and simply meant to make the training, uh, enter training.

[00:36:32] John Dwyer: Okay. So you don't want training that's not enter training. Yeah. Uh, and, and don't take it personally. So therefore, I'm going to criticize short people, tall people, uh, Koreans, Australians, new Zealanders, Americans. There'll be no exceptions. So if you don't, can't take a joke. Leave right now. Don't go complaining when you come back.

[00:36:49] John Dwyer: And I remember one seminar just before COVID. It was at the Voco Hotel on the Gold Coast. And I said at the end, when I'm flogging my, uh, coaching program, uh, I said, listen, no, anyone who wants to join then get to the back of the room and will have smoke coming at your credit card pretty quickly. Uh, and if you don't join, then I hope you'll die in your sleep tonight.

[00:37:06] John Dwyer: Uh, and uh, we do have. Rules. However, we're like Disneyland. We have a height restriction. We don't take on any small people. Uh, and we don't take on any women called Esme or Burl because have you ever met an interesting Esme or an interesting burl? You know? And anyway, this guy comes up to me and he was, uh, he obviously was taking the piss outta me.

[00:37:24] John Dwyer: He said, oh, jd, uh, I've got a problem. I said, why? He said, my wife's not here, but I rung her and said, we've gotta join the program. He said, but I've got a, I said, mate, what's the problem? He said, she's only five foot eight. I said, mate's not, not my decision. I have to take that to a committee meeting.

[00:37:36] John Dwyer: Seriously. I mean, you know, we don't take people. He goes, no, it's.

[00:37:46] John Dwyer: His mate. Yeah, I had said that we don't take women called Esme or Barrell. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, yes, yes, of course. Yeah. And of course he said his wife is not only short, she's only Esmay. Yeah. Try and keep up with the program Chris, if you don't mean, oh, I'm sorry man,

[00:37:59] Chris Schwager: like this old school bloody gags that dad jokes.

[00:38:02] Chris Schwager: I'm just, just trying to keep up man. Um, hey, uh, look, it's been fun, man, and uh, uh, it's actually really opened up my eyes. It hasn't been a lot of video stuff. Sorry for that. But hey, if you're in the world of video and you're in the world of business, then you're need to be in the world of marketing sales as well.

[00:38:18] Chris Schwager: So this has just, uh, just been so, uh, eye-opening for me. I'd probably wanted to give away something and I just wasn't, wasn't sure what, what that was all about. And I think this has given me a lot more clarity as to how to possibly. Do that in our thing. I mean, every, as you say, ever in business needs more leads and whatnot.

[00:38:37] Chris Schwager: Um, for us, um, the idea, Chris, of having a thousand, Chris,

[00:38:42] John Dwyer: you probably know the Frank Kerns and the, you know, Dan Kennedys and, you know, the Ryan Dyers and Russell Brunsons, all those cool kids at time. Yeah. Uh, I joined the Joe Polish Genius Network, uh, much to my wife's Jain because it was 25 uk. Uh, sorry, 25 US money.

[00:38:56] John Dwyer: Uh, 20 5K US money a year. So she was really pleased about that. And you've gotta go back to Phoenix three times a year. So kiss goodbye to 50 or 60 Australian, but you do get to sit with, uh, you know, the Anthony Robbins style people. Uh, he wasn't there, but you know, Russell Brunson and, uh, Ryan Dyes and Frank Kern and all those guys are there.

[00:39:13] John Dwyer: So you go backwards and forwards to Phoenix a few times a year, and they were blown away with this stuff. Uh, they, I got 10 minutes on stage in front of 'em, so it was worth 20 5K to do that, so. Oh, awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, you know, they're smart marketers. These guys, you know, like Russell Brunson with his ClickFunnels, he's, uh, he's made a few more dollars than me, but when I was showing them how to use, uh, you know, social media in an alternate way than just simply product and price, uh, yeah, their heads exploded and so.

[00:39:40] John Dwyer: Uh, after I came off stage and, uh, I, I was, yeah, I, I felt like I was Justin Bieber. There was that many people surrounding me, and these were all like experts. These guys are experts at the game. Um, so it is a bit different. It, it's, it's really different from what the traditional, you know, digital marketing agency will tell you.

[00:39:56] John Dwyer: I mean, we had a client come on. Just two weeks ago and he said, uh, [00:40:00] look, I'm in the travel game. I wanna set up a thing called the Cruise Club. And so we had the, uh, and he, you know, he'd been down the path of the, uh, dare I say, website designer who's a bit of hipster, uh, excuse me, whilst I just flick the ponytail.

[00:40:13] John Dwyer: Um, and, uh, they six months. Six months after the brief, they'd not given him his website. He briefed them in January and here we are, like just recently, he still didn't have his website. So I said, mate, look, we'll have a website done for you in 24 hours. So we had a website done in 48. I lied. Wow. It was two days.

[00:40:28] John Dwyer: Um, and then we ran a Facebook campaign. We only launched it a week ago. And uh, we, God love him. He wants to sell 50 and a hundred thousand cruises to rich people. Uh, and, uh, he wants to spend $15 a day on Facebook. And so therefore I said to him, please, you know, why don't you, you know, just spend 50, not 15.

[00:40:48] John Dwyer: Yeah. But even with 15, guess what we're getting 41 cents. Memberships for him, so therefore they actually see the ad. Uh, would you like to join the cruise club and learn all about discount cruises and special deals and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Click here. They go through to a landing page, and that landing page excites 'em even further.

[00:41:04] John Dwyer: They leave their details and then they're a member. Guess what happens when he gets to thousands of members, which it won't take him long because guess what, with just $15 a day with one week, he's up over 350 members already. He's getting leads like for. I said 41 cents. Right? Um, but the thing is, is that when he gets thousands of members of this, guess what he's gonna sell to them?

[00:41:23] John Dwyer: He's called the cruise club. What do you think he's gonna sell to them? Cruisers. And who joins? The cruise club? People who want to go on a cruise. Yeah. And guess, guess how he gets 'em to join the club? He says to them, join the cruise club for absolute free. There's no charge to it, and we will give you a free holiday.

[00:41:41] John Dwyer: Therefore it's pretty easy for people to get hard nipples when they see an ad like that. They go, my God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna join the club for free and I get a holiday for free.

[00:41:49] Chris Schwager: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm loving it, man. Uh, I definitely think we need to chat off, uh, offline and get to, to know each other further and see how we won't be able to do something together.

[00:42:00] Chris Schwager: Um, for the listeners, let's wrap this up and keep them wanting more. How do people get in touch?

[00:42:07] John Dwyer: Mate, look, I live on a private island these days. I don't really need the money. Um,

[00:42:12] Chris Schwager: oh good. So you work for free. Yeah. I wish that was

[00:42:14] John Dwyer: the truth. And when everybody says why are you still walking the boards? I, it's six kids superannuation taken away from me by the six kids private schools, you know, Disneyland holidays, um, mate.

[00:42:24] John Dwyer: Yeah, look, I'll give you the, uh, the, the contact details, but I will also give everyone a gift. When you were writing a book, uh, when you're in the seminar circuit, so you gotta write a book. Uh, and, uh, I hated it, but that's what you had to do. So I thought if, uh, Mr. WI better write a decent sized book. So this is a leather bound, uh, gold tipped edges here.

[00:42:41] John Dwyer: Uh, this is 300 pages of all of the. Uh, most successful direct response marketing campaigns I've run over the last 15 or 20 years, they are timeless because if there's something in here that I did for, you know, Kerry Packer's Woman's Day Magazine, uh, today would be done online. Okay. But it's neither here nor there.

[00:42:58] John Dwyer: It's only the communication platform that's changed. The ideas have not changed. Right. Uh, McDonald's have been doing Happy Meals for 44 years, right? Uh, so I'll give that for free to anyone who wants it. Uh, but this is what's called a, um. What would call lead capture concept. You have an, if anyone an email, John the

[00:43:21] John Dwyer: give you this book for free. This book costs, by the way, $420 to print. If I was to give you the real copy, 'cause it's a pretty big book, but we'll obviously give you the digital property, uh uh, copy. I don't like it that much. Um, so therefore, yeah, if you just email me at john at the institute of wow.com.

[00:43:38] John Dwyer: Or if you want to go to the website, it's the institute of wow.com.

[00:43:42] Chris Schwager: Thanks for listening to the Video Confidence Collective Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a five star review on Apple Podcast and Spotify and subscribe to us on YouTube so you never miss an episode. For more resources, check out the show notes and follow me at Chris Schwager or Ridge Films and see you on the next episode.