Less Words, More Impact: Mastering Clarity in Communication with Neil Osborne (Episode 187)

[00:00:00] Chris Schwager: G'day legends. Welcome to the DIY Video for Professionals podcast, where we unravel the secrets behind crafting videos that screen professional without the hassle. I'm your host, Chris Schwager, the DIY maestro, here to guide you through the mesmerizing world of DIY video production. We take you beyond the lens, from the latest in DIY video, optimizing your tech setup, and even to candid chats with clients sharing personal stories that transcend the realm of video.

[00:00:29] Chris Schwager: This is your all access pass to mastering the video game and living a life filled with action and decisions. Get ready to transform, not just your videos, but your approach to life one episode at a time. Welcome to DIY Video for Professionals. So I've had

[00:00:58] Chris Schwager: four, over four years experience now in the podcasting world. And I went from starting out. Going straight, like going back to the iPhone, getting a whole bunch of team involved, scripting everything. And then I was like, Oh God, who has time, for all that, I have to go back to something more more easy flowing workflow here to make it everybody for everybody.

[00:01:17] Chris Schwager: I did

[00:01:17] Neil Osborne: something different, something similar, I should say. I actually went and hired a studio. I used to go into a studio every two weeks and do two or three just faced purely me delivering content. Then I started doing interviews and then I started using Zoom and then but Zoom wasn't quality enough and then I was, I think we've all tried to monetize podcasts at some point.

[00:01:38] Neil Osborne: Being frustrated by it.

[00:01:40] Chris Schwager: Welcome Neil Osborne to the show. And just for those that are new to the podcast, I occasionally Get some clients on the show that have had experience with the DIY desktop studio that as Neil was just saying, they've gone through some kind of experience, whether that's hiring a video team to try and put a whole bunch of, group, a whole bunch of video content and then release it to the market or they've.

[00:02:03] Chris Schwager: Gear. Or they've bought some gear and inevitably they, it comes on stock because they're lacking the process, the system, the ability to repeat it and to repeat it without all the head space that it takes to actually put these videos together. So Neil, Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:20] Chris Schwager: Great to be here, Chris. Thanks. And one of the other reasons I got Neil on is because he's such a great speaker and I'm going to let him speak because when I did, was out there doing the install for Neil, I did a little to camera iPhone y thing and he just nailed it. Like I love people like you. I do.

[00:02:36] Chris Schwager: I really do. Like it's like the radio thing. You somehow have a gift to formulate that message or not, just get on there and go, boom, I know how to structure this. Where did that gift come from?

[00:02:46] Neil Osborne: Gee whiz, I think it actually came from just the desire to actually communicate to somebody else rather than to communicate to me.

[00:02:54] Neil Osborne: What I find is when I speak to a lot of speakers or people who are wanting to communicate, they seem to make it all about them. Where I learned very early in my age was to make it all about somebody else. And when I do that, I also discovered another secret. And that the secret was this. How can you say it in less words?

[00:03:12] Neil Osborne: Because what I tend to define is when people use lots of words, people switch off. It's been a bit of a conscious thing I've worked on over the years. And for those of you who can't see this, I have a beautiful shade of grey. So yeah, I've been around for a while.

[00:03:25] Chris Schwager: And less words. We all need less words in our lives, right?

[00:03:29] Neil Osborne: It's, it creates impact.

[00:03:32] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the, if you confuse you lose, the more you talk, the more cluttered and the more work the brain needs to go through to process the information.

[00:03:44] Neil Osborne: So many people try to prove how much they know by how much they say. WeTeach, the way that you prove how much you know is by the level of the question that you ask.

[00:03:56] Chris Schwager: And so tell me a bit more about the WeTeach, so specifically. Oh, sure. Yeah.

[00:04:00] Neil Osborne: Yeah, no, look I've been on an interesting journey over the years and for the last 10 to 15 years I've been involved in a business about helping people become better communicators. And and why is because most people believe to persuade someone.

[00:04:15] Neil Osborne: To their point of view, they just have to keep on talking until the other party says yes. Now, I hate to tell you, that's a very old school approach but what we find is how many people do it. And especially when a little bit of anxiety arises, is they just keep on talking.

[00:04:30] Neil Osborne: And then they find themselves, they're talking so much they can't stop talking. And it's a fascinating space. So I created a business where we actually teach people to stop selling and start to be more persuasive. The goal of Persuasion, Chris, is to learn to ask really powerful questions that opens up the conversation.

[00:04:50] Chris Schwager: Yes. And I remember in my early days at BNI, people would ask me, What do you do? What does your business do? What do you do? And I'd [00:05:00] spend five minutes rabbiting on about video and blah, blah, blah. And at the end of that conversation, they'd go, Oh, yeah, my brother's into photos. I'd go, Holy shit. When did I ever say photos?

[00:05:12] Chris Schwager: And the problem was, I was just, it was just the wrong conversation. Yeah.

[00:05:16] Neil Osborne: If you get in the wrong answer, you need to ask a different question.

[00:05:20] Chris Schwager: I think one of the things I learned too was at least for the pitch, and this is what I still remember to this day is somebody asks you what you do.

[00:05:27] Chris Schwager: You go let me tell you something. Have you got a video on your website? And it's like immediately you're in a dialogue, you're in a conversation back and forth, and away you go.

[00:05:37] Neil Osborne: A conversation, the definition of a conversation is when two people talk, not one. That's right. And we get that so wrong.

[00:05:45] Neil Osborne: Yeah, so that's that's also the reason why I wanted to get into this modality and this technology that you've got because I run lots of Zooms. I train internationally as well as domestically. We do as much as we can now on this platform. And the amazing thing was And I'm going to jump in because this was my biggest frustration, Chris, and I want to share this with a lot of your listeners.

[00:06:07] Neil Osborne: Before I met you, I had, I don't know how many cameras, I don't know how many microphones, I don't know how many lights, but man, I tell you what, I'd be halfway through a presentation and the camera battery would run out. I'd be halfway through a presentation and I forgot to turn my microphone on. I was just absolute, and it was so distracting, and it was substandard.

[00:06:33] Neil Osborne: Now, I get people asking me, Oh what have you changed? What have you done? What are you doing? And it's just, to turn on one switch, to get ready for this call, oh, I had to just, do my finger exercises and reach across and flick the switch. It was fantastic. So I, look, I just wanted to say thank you because you've changed my world.

[00:06:51] Neil Osborne: You've really changed my world a lot.

[00:06:53] Chris Schwager: Oh, that I've just come off a big PR y hour of talking to a firm that handles award submissions so that they're responsible for doing a whole bunch of awards this year. And one of the things I said. They say, Oh, what's the been the results? I said it's changed people's lives.

[00:07:12] Chris Schwager: And I've said it maybe on a hesitant, but these are documented, right? Go on the site and you can actually hear people talk about this. And when you actually look at what they're talking about, I was like if they've spent their day building so much anxiety around what they've had to do.

[00:07:28] Chris Schwager: And it's stopped them from really the core of what they've been trying to achieve, which is communicate the bloody message and record the video and get on with your day. So if it's expedited that for them and got them silky smooth on the way that they move in to, to doing those things then yes, that is life changing to a certain degree because it's made them more productive and better organized.

[00:07:49] Neil Osborne: Those things are great business cliches. More productive.

[00:07:53] Neil Osborne: Let me actually We're your one stop

[00:07:54] Chris Schwager: shop, Neil.

[00:07:57] Neil Osborne: Let me tell you, let me tell you the real truth. The real truth is this. I used to waste half a day trying to put together a short, Some think or other. My anxiety would be high.

[00:08:10] Neil Osborne: My confidence would drop as I made a mistake and made a mistake and made a mistake. Now I get on a call and I've got anywhere from five to 40 people on my calls. So it just varies on what we're doing and my shot looks the best out of everybody. I was, I'm part of a professional speakers association and I was on the international zoom the other day and there was only one other person that I would classify had the level of clarity.

[00:08:38] Neil Osborne: And set up she probably had a better background than me, so I'm going to give her points for that. But, how does that make you feel? So psychologically, internally, forget that external stuff, internally, I felt ten times better, more confident, I felt more part of the group because people were looking at how good I was, as in on the camera.

[00:08:58] Neil Osborne: They were all sitting at home with some sort of, whatever it just changes your whole thinking. Changes your whole thinking. Cause you know what it's like about us blokes, we're only as good as what you tell us we are. So when I see myself, coming across well, man, it just takes me to another level.

[00:09:15] Chris Schwager: Simplify the variables is the secret sauce, Neil.

[00:09:19] Neil Osborne: Well now I knock things out in a couple of minutes. Literally, my team says, look, I need a one minute so and so I go, great. I have a slightly different procedure. You have a brilliant educational program, which I loved working through with you.

[00:09:32] Neil Osborne: It really helped me structure my video content, but here's the thing that I, and this is how I do it. I'm real verbal. I'm a speaker. So I actually turn everything on. And I build out my message. I then pause it, I then download it, and I upload it into an AI tool to transcribe. So now I have the set of words, and then I go through and I take out all the ums and the ahs and the, and I tighten it, and tighten it.

[00:09:58] Neil Osborne: Then I run it through the [00:10:00] auto queue, and that's what I present those words. Good. And I can knock that process out. Now in, 15, 30 minutes, and I can go from idea to now polished, tight presentation within the minute or within the 90, whatever the timeframe is that my team want, and whack, I get it probably within three takes.

[00:10:21] Neil Osborne: I've got something really solid. Yeah. And that has changed my world.

[00:10:25] Chris Schwager: So that workflow has enabled, you to just. You get on and do it. And by having that process is certainly a a huge benefit to you in terms of moving through and getting content built. What do you say to the person that is still overcoming that big fear of how they show up on camera and they're presenting?

[00:10:42] Chris Schwager: Oh,

[00:10:43] Neil Osborne: okay. I would ask them very simply, do they have a Bunnings? Near them. And if they do, I'd like to ask them to go to the Bunnings store and buy a little bag. They have these little toy bags of wood. I want you to buy a little hammer and a bag of nails. I want you to build a bridge and I want you to get over it.

[00:10:57] Chris Schwager: And look, I think that's I, Definitely say that's cliche and I'll fire back at you, Neil, and it's very easy. And I, and this is what I found and I believe it, right? But I found that the only reason that I'm starting to now pour more content into say iPhone when I'm walking the dog or something now, even though my whole core bloody business is presenting myself in the best possible light and sounding amazing for me.

[00:11:24] Chris Schwager: Getting on a scrappy iPhone and trying to punch out something that was high in value, arguably not so crash hot with production value was it was a phobia was like a thing that I didn't want. I didn't want to do yet. Now I'm like, cool. I've had my near death experience. I don't give a shit anymore.

[00:11:40] Chris Schwager: It's okay. I'll say the way I say and the way I show up on camera is the way I show up in real life. There's nothing to hide. I'm okay. But it's took a life threatening accident to to get to that point. What, how do people change and go, you know what, Neil's right. I've got to build a bridge and immediately they're doing something different in business.

[00:12:01] Neil Osborne: That look very good question. And that is that it comes down to how much do you actually value What you've got to say what is the value in your message? And if you believe that you've got a really valuable message, it took me about probably one to two months to get over hearing my voice and looking at myself on camera.

[00:12:20] Neil Osborne: And once I moved through that, we now have marketing meetings and we only have other technology over in the boardroom. The teams are running videos of me all the time. They're editing, cutting, talking about the way I say. And I just sit there and we just talk about it. It's just you do actually, with with revisiting it frequently, you just, you do get over it.

[00:12:39] Neil Osborne: You do get used to it, but initially a lot of people lack the self esteem in this space to actually go, hey, no, that is the authentic me. That is how I react. That is, one ear is bigger than the other ear. I do have these funny things I say. But guess what? That is the authentic you. And that's what people want to hear.

[00:13:00] Neil Osborne: They don't want to hear some make up. They, you listen to these girls doing the TV shows and you know their voice is something totally different when they walk away from the camera. What we do is we present our authentic self and that's what people buy. People buy you, Chris, because of the way you present, the way you front up, the way you show up, you do what you say.

[00:13:19] Neil Osborne: People buy me, my key audience is 18 to 35 year old female. Now, you would never think that looking at me. I'm a grey haired bloke and most people go, My Joe's, how do you do that? And I go, because I've got this content that is just incredible. When you start to realise the power of what you've got to say, and you actually start to, Say to yourself, Hey, I just need to start to get it out there and the best way to do it, I found initially was I would be driving along and I would just turn my phone on and I would record something into my phone and I would keep on doing that and I would play it back and I just started to get used to hearing my voice and then unfortunately then I had to start doing it on camera so then I got used to looking at myself.

[00:14:00] Neil Osborne: Fortunately,

[00:14:01] Chris Schwager: because you look amazing.

[00:14:03] Neil Osborne: You just, you just you just it takes a bit of time and, if people don't feel confident with their content, sometimes that stops them taking the next step. But the best thing you can possibly do, I believe is Look for ways that you can start to explore and expand and share your message.

[00:14:23] Neil Osborne: Now, whether that's by getting on stage, whether that's by doing some free events from time to time whether that's by joining a professional association like the Professional Speakers Association, for example, which is a, a tremendous body to help people become better speakers and become profitable.

[00:14:39] Neil Osborne: Speakers or simply Toastmasters or simply something, but the difference between staying where you are and getting something done is one simple thing and that's called implementation. Just do it.

[00:14:51] Chris Schwager: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I still get people say, Oh, the video thing, just don't like the way I sound or I look.[00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Chris Schwager: And I'm like, why would you? Like you've been looking at yourself in the mirror for the last, 40 bloody years. So it's this idea that people think that if they're going on camera, they're magically just going to fucking be better. Wow. And that, that's the misnomer about people that have coming to me with the equipment issues and want to get it done and sort it out.

[00:15:19] Chris Schwager: Cause they've gone into Ted's camera shop to solve the problems that are actually within them, which is, ability to present, convey a message, get it across confidently. Of course the equipment is one thing, but they realize when they get. the audio recorder and the camera, the microphone and the ring light.

[00:15:36] Chris Schwager: And they're like, wow. The realization is the gear is not going to do that for them. The practice of repeating as you say, repeating, getting used to the Hearing yourself and seeing yourself and I keep coming back because I'm presenting to a whole bunch of recruiters next week, doing a live on camera training session with them and put one person out there and we're going to work through some of the phobias that people encounter when they go into this space and I'm going to want to see someone go from we didn't go through it Neil, but most people have not had an experience with reading from a prompter and not had an experience really presenting themselves in front of camera.

[00:16:17] Chris Schwager: So of course, when you throw a script at them, what's the first thing? It sounds like a bloody dry, boring, dull, thing. It could be a great script, but it's just the way it's presented is horrible. And so over 60 minute period. We'll be making sure that sounds a hell of a lot better by the end of it.

[00:16:31] Chris Schwager: But the whole thing is, it's I use this analogy of saying if I, if you immediately plunked yourself at the door of one of these planes and you got your backpack on and they're all jumping out and next thing you're at the door and they're like, okay, ready? Green light go.

[00:16:46] Chris Schwager: And you go wait. What do I do? So you're anxious, you got, you are more than just anxious, right? You're fearing for your life, you got obviously butterflies in the belly, it's exhilarating and scary and all these emotions are firing at you. What's the missing link?

[00:17:05] Chris Schwager: You just weren't prepared. You didn't spend the time on the ground going through the method and knowing which thing to pull how to bloody land properly, how to jump out properly. Those things are missing. Of course, you're going to have a whole bunch of unknowns about the space and the same thing in video.

[00:17:21] Chris Schwager: It's, I don't know. It's the best analogy I've got right now, but that's the same thing. Don't expect that you're just going to jump on and be a star overnight. It takes time. It takes practice. It takes a guide. It takes a method and it takes a repeatable process that gets you doing it effortlessly as time goes on.

[00:17:36] Neil Osborne: Yeah. And be comfortable with making mistakes. I I remember my first parachute jump vividly. I went on to do five, I failed three. I,

[00:17:47] Neil Osborne: Let's just say the instructor failed me three times. But the fact of the matter is that I still survived. It was the most exhilarating and adrenaline pumped experience I ever had. But the fact of the matter is, so is getting a really good message. Together really tight, and be comfortable with making mistakes.

[00:18:04] Neil Osborne: You know There's so many times that I just reach over and go stop start again. Stop start again I've been speaking for probably, 10 to 15 years now. And I still, just stop, start again, stop, start again. And you just need to get used to like you're editing somebody else. It's almost like this third person comes into play.

[00:18:24] Neil Osborne: And once you move to that space, I'm now super comfortable in doing all of the above even though I might be sitting here, in a nice business shirt, I might be also sitting here in a pair of shorts and, my favorite sandals. But It's just such a free experience.

[00:18:36] Chris Schwager: My business coach had a bit of a rip at me at the quality, of the reply inquiry video.

[00:18:42] Chris Schwager: And some of you may know, but every time an inquiry comes in, I reply in video first. So that's my protocol because I don't want to pick up the phone and get them while they park in the car and waste everybody's time. So I'm trying to force them into a scheduled appointment. So I do this through a thing called a 30 second reply inquiry video.

[00:18:58] Chris Schwager: My coach looked at it and he went, yeah it's pretty like straightforward. Like it's pretty boom. And AKA it lacked connection. It lacked emotion. It was like, you've heard the script right now. And in my, I've had, I've

[00:19:10] Neil Osborne: received the video. Yeah,

[00:19:12] Chris Schwager: that's right. Yeah everybody does.

[00:19:14] Chris Schwager: Now they're a minute long instead of 30 seconds and they've got a picture of your site there and it's like a lot of high relevance and then high personalization. Meaning I, my agenda is not just to get this thing off my desk. It's to improve the connection point. So yes, you've got The, the relevance of seeing your site and my face there and all of that.

[00:19:35] Chris Schwager: Yeah, cool. As a thumbnail, that makes sense. But when we're talking, I'm introducing myself, I'm saying, Oh yeah, you may have come in through LinkedIn. I don't know. Sometimes we may have problems with LinkedIn leads and if that's you, great, you're in the right place. If it's not, sorry, I won't bother you again, I've been on your side and I'm having a look at it and there's no video on there and like just trying to like.

[00:19:54] Chris Schwager: Give them a little bit more than just a high, book an appointment here and it's been great. Like it's [00:20:00] a big, it's such a big shift. And my point I'm trying to make here is I've gone off script and I've built the resilience to a certain degree to go, okay. I need to acknowledge that I've got to have the same level of efficiency around these.

[00:20:14] Chris Schwager: Like I can't be, cause I'm going off script. I can't be going, Oh let's just do another one. Because that wasn't perfect, man. I went through an entire like 50 second thing, got to the end and said to this guy, bye Bill. And his name was Will, right? So I'm now thinking, okay, I've just blew, I just blew a take.

[00:20:32] Chris Schwager: I laughed. Recovered, came back and went, Oh man, sorry, will, and finished the video and sent it and got it out there. So what difference does it make? And so I guess where I'm going with this is At some point in our minds, we've valued something way higher than it probably should be valued at, because this is a one video, one play, one audience, right?

[00:20:58] Chris Schwager: And we've just put that on a pedestal and go, it's got to be perfect because I don't want to miss out on this opportunity. But yet for the recipient, they see like a little mishap. They see a laugh, a recovery, and All in all, the video actually blew them away, right? It's real, it's human, it's personalised, and they see all the effort in going through that.

[00:21:19] Chris Schwager: I have a question attached to this.

[00:21:22] Neil Osborne: Please, I concur. I agree with you totally because people today are sick and tired. We're getting, it's I suppose it's, let's just think of the evolution of what's been going on, right? Social media has got to a point of where we're over it. Emails, it's hard to get people.

[00:21:37] Neil Osborne: to respond to email now, say you need to do something like this, but even, text messages, whatever it is, if you make a blunder or a bloop you, in a text message, you just send another, quick fix solution as to what you were trying to say. Guess what? Video is becoming more and more popular, and I think we just need to show our vulnerability and who we really are, because by the way, the people that we're speaking to make these blunders as well.

[00:21:59] Neil Osborne: I

[00:21:59] Chris Schwager: had a guy, I had a client who was super keen to get her husband involved and, I think we spent a bit of time on the oncoming training, but I got, I worked with him on it. He'd been out of work for a year as a high level executive. And I only know what I know about. War, humans, and Humans require more than just stats, facts, data.

[00:22:26] Chris Schwager: We, we, we really need stories, right? And so I was pushing him into saying, look, man, just tell him you're a dad and fucking two kids and this, that, and the other. And just start with something that they can latch onto. And he was all okay with it, right? And then I got back on with his missus and I said, I had to go.

[00:22:41] Chris Schwager: And he's he didn't record it. And I was like, okay, I don't know if he's still out of work or not, but I you I've been producing, helping another one of my clients with course content, same thing. He would have chat GPT'd the shit out of this thing and had this really technical stuff, just a bloody train wreck of information that might hit one or two people, but just on the masses, just missing the mark.

[00:23:10] Chris Schwager: And we're investing shit tons of time together to get him eight modules, like 10 to 15 minutes each. So there's a lot of script writing and a lot of under Like understanding communication, understanding what he's doing. And then, the first thing I got him to do in the module one, I said, bro, I know your story.

[00:23:29] Chris Schwager: You need to lead with that at needs to come out in that first module, because people will invest in you as a human and understand why it is that you do just purely through the premise of your story and your journey that you've gone through and why you got to here teaching them. Now the ropes that you go through.

[00:23:49] Chris Schwager: It's just, in business, in corporate, we just don't do it. We're not doing it nearly enough, telling our story, being, vulnerable. To your point, you talked about authenticity. I think that's a banded word around. Everyone's I need to be more authentic. By virtue of being in front of the camera for the first time, under the lights, under that situation, is your authentic self.

[00:24:07] Chris Schwager: That, that's just the only way I can interpret it. And it just sucks. And that's a realization. It sucks, but it's the authentic you. And why would it be any different, right? And so this is the idea of going, okay I need to just improve that, right? Because we don't want to suck on camera.

[00:24:22] Chris Schwager: So it's about probably being more real rather than more authentic, more real, more like you, is probably the

[00:24:28] Neil Osborne: key thing. Yeah. And look, you're right. That word is bandied around a lot, but what I find really interesting is we're pretty active on socials and doing lots of content. And about every three months, my team come to me and go, come on, we need to do a little bit more backstory. How did you get to here? How did you get to where you are in your career? I think the audience needs to know that you grew up as a youngster in your mom's hairdressing salon, and that was where you developed this perspective. And we need it. And I just say, Oh, people don't want to know that.

[00:24:53] Neil Osborne: And they go, yes, they do. And sometimes they're our most popular reels where we tell, talk a little bit about our [00:25:00] why are we here? And everyone's got one of those stories.

[00:25:02] Chris Schwager: I remember I, after my accident, I told one of my clients, he's 75, in Perth. He's just invested in the desktop studio. He's going for it.

[00:25:11] Chris Schwager: 75 years of age. And I said, I just don't know if my story, if people care about my story. I had told him what I was doing. Launching three like one minute videos around it and it's broken into this sort of trilogy thing and it just, it was just like, you're fucking wrong, like people and what I'm now understanding is like, it could literally be anything, any story that people go, Oh yeah, that's me, Oh, you ever go down to the grocery shop and you find yourself, Oh, That's me.

[00:25:40] Chris Schwager: And I think it's always about this kind of the audience is always framing themselves. They're actually going along on that journey. Their brain is working differently to you, just barking facts and data and situations to them. Their brain is working when. When you're telling that story, they're like, I've got a dad too.

[00:25:56] Chris Schwager: Yeah. My dad was hard on me as well. I've had any of the other experience. Oh, I'm sure that would have been, it's funny. And I just reckon the world needs so much more of that. And in doing so, I guess a more connected society. So more human interactions, less bullshit, less.

[00:26:11] Chris Schwager: Facade y stuff. Do you know what I mean? Yeah,

[00:26:13] Neil Osborne: because we connect with different elements of those stories. And the more you can just share about that and get used to making your stories interesting, this is what I was talking about before about, attending professional speakers groups and things of this nature.

[00:26:26] Neil Osborne: There's a way to tell a story and there's a way to tell a story. And, as I'm just recently studying, there's a way to bring humor into every story. And, as the saying goes amongst amongst speakers, if you want to get rebooked, you have to make them laugh.

[00:26:39] Chris Schwager: Ha. Cause it's evoking an emotional response.

[00:26:42] Neil Osborne: Thank you. Thank you. And, and I will tell you right now, the peak, the speakers who have the best comedy and I'm not talking, stand up, I'm talking about one liners and punch lines and things like that are the ones that get a lot of work. Because people like to laugh.

[00:26:56] Neil Osborne: Again, the more comfortable you feel in the microphone, the more comfortable you feel in front of a camera, the more you can be yourself, and the more you can pull out those one liners and get people to laugh. We all have these little Industry stories we tell and it's a great place.

[00:27:10] Neil Osborne: It's a really great place to get people to laugh

[00:27:12] Chris Schwager: the presentation. I'm doing next week. I've been presenting for a long time on stages. I've had some training and whatever, but the problem I felt like, I've been criticized right, right from the start of this. I was always like, Oh, you weren't yourself.

[00:27:24] Chris Schwager: And even recently, last year's keynote, I did 300 people on bloody me. effectively Zoom. No, no recipients. I couldn't see anyone just far and away. And the criticism I got was like from one of my colleagues was like, Oh, just where it wasn't the real Chris. And I go, you know what, I'm fucking sick of this.

[00:27:48] Chris Schwager: I go, you put all this energy into investing into your slide deck and your messaging and structuring the content and making sure you're delivering value, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this thing that's coming up next. Next week. I'm going. All right. So what I'm acknowledging now, because I'm all about taking massive action and changing things up and letting it fire is that what I've been doing is leaning on.

[00:28:10] Chris Schwager: a system that is really just delivering mediocre. I'm not getting anywhere. And my first thought after that revelation was right. I, if I gotta, they're gonna, I'm going to be the last session of the day. And it's not about clapping my hands anymore and just waking them up.

[00:28:25] Chris Schwager: It's about evoking that response. And why I'm doing that because it is relative to what I'm presenting, but doing it through trying to do it through humor and try, I say that in the most serious tone possible, trying to do it through humor. But I want the same. I do want the same and I want a better result because of it.

[00:28:48] Chris Schwager: And purely based on the fact that I'm injecting stories as well. But trying to get some laughs along the way and make things light and fun in a really sticky situation for a lot of people like there would be people that don't want to raise their hands, don't want to interact, don't want to talk, don't just sitting in the audience wouldn't want to have their their little space.

[00:29:07] Chris Schwager: Triggered, right? And that's the first thing I'm going to do is trigger their space because I want them in discomfort because they need to be, they need to know that to get good requires a hell of discomfort because you're going to then build the method behind it. That's going to make it more comfortable.

[00:29:24] Chris Schwager: So if you are feeling uncomfortable as everybody does, like one of the biggest fears in the world, right? Get over it. It is. what it is. You will always have the butterflies. That's cool. That's fine. Accept the energy and let it flow from your body.

[00:29:40] Neil Osborne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. If you, and the moment you don't feel nervous before a presentation, stop and ask yourself why.

[00:29:48] Neil Osborne: And that is, yeah, something's wrong. You need to have that little bit of nervous energy. That's what brings out the best. That's what takes you to the next layer. That's what takes you to the next level. It's

[00:29:58] Chris Schwager: people in the studio, people [00:30:00] in the studio here, and they're under the lights, camera, sound, teleprompter, never presented before.

[00:30:04] Chris Schwager: I'll do one take, and I go, how was that? They go, yeah, it was okay. How do you feel? Yeah, I'm feeling okay. I'm like, I've got a problem. You should be, you should have sweaty palms. You should be like, fuck. And as they progress, and I give them all these Spinning plates to try and keep up in the air, they realize, holy shit.

[00:30:22] Chris Schwager: There's a hell of a lot more here than I thought there was gonna be. I thought I just had to read. And then they thought, no, read and smile. , absolutely. It does that on its own. Is an effort because it's so good. It's I love the psychology of video 'cause their brain is now focused on doing two things.

[00:30:42] Chris Schwager: Reading and smiling and I like, consistently smile. I'm not talking do a little grin. Hi. And then taper off. I'm saying, you've got to actually bring that smile all the way through. Oh, okay. And then all of a sudden they get second guessing themselves. Oh, do I look like Bobo the Clown?

[00:30:56] Chris Schwager: What is this? Who is this guy? I don't know what I'm doing. But then it was, it's interesting when you go, when they go through it, they see the evidence and the evidence does not lie. It's the first recording that we did that sucked. And the last recording that's a hell of a lot better Oh,

[00:31:12] Neil Osborne: yeah it's look, it's a really powerful experience to be able to see this transformation.

[00:31:17] Neil Osborne: And again, what we do the same thing in a training environment. Within four weeks, we can take someone from a cellar and. doing it badly to a really polished persuader and having a 20, 30 percent uplift in their sales, revenue, whatever it is they're working on. And yeah, it, that transforms their life.

[00:31:34] Neil Osborne: And the biggest message we get, we work a lot in the beauty industry. The biggest message we get is everybody in the clinic is so happy now. And I go, yeah, because everyone's saying yes, where before they were saying no, when everyone was feeling stressed, there's many side benefits to what we do about shifting people's mindsets and about shifting their confidence.

[00:31:53] Neil Osborne: And I have to tell you, it's a great joy. It's a great joy to be able to do that.

[00:31:57] Chris Schwager: So you've. Been about probably about a year now. You've had your kid in and you're doing things. So you're using it mainly for vehicles and I think you're going to create some course y content. Yeah, we do.

[00:32:08] Neil Osborne: I do about 40 Zooms a week.

[00:32:10] Neil Osborne: Sorry 10 Zooms a week, about 40 a month. 40 a week would have been a bit too much, but no we a good week for us is 10, a bad week is 15 or 5, but no, we do lots of Zoom education. I'm currently training a team in London. And, in various other states around the country number one, number two, we use also, I do a lot of video content for our socials so that people get to know me and not just make a judgment of me visually, but make a judgment more importantly on what we can do through our message to help people.

[00:32:40] Neil Osborne: them. The third thing is that we currently have a structured course, which is 60 minutes a week for four weeks, which is the piece that everyone goes through. And we're literally working on turning that into an online course. And that's the other reason why I made this investment, because what I wanted is I wanted to be able to have something that's high quality.

[00:33:00] Neil Osborne: So people actually get to hear my message rather than judge me on the method I'm delivering it. And we're now going to break that four week course down into, 10 to 12 modules and start to push it out online.

[00:33:14] Chris Schwager: Tell me what the coaching was for you at the end of our sort of working relationship initially, where the installation happened and then we started on the coaching.

[00:33:23] Chris Schwager: I think we worked through the sales. Process videos. Is that was that? Okay. So can you just tell us tell us what the coaching meant for you, in that early

[00:33:32] Neil Osborne: coaching for me is something that I also do. I do mentoring for some, like some of my clients. And what happens is that I came into this program going, yeah, look, I've been speaking for ages.

[00:33:42] Neil Osborne: Yeah, I know. I, I can put together a few words. I know what's going to happen, but then the moment it all comes into play it's driving a new car for the first time. It takes a little bit. Time just to get used to the groove and you've just gone through this pleasure yourself.

[00:33:55] Neil Osborne: To go through some of these changes, but what it actually enabled me. And one of the reasons why I also decided to purchase from you was not just because of what you could deliver, but that first three months, because I could have quite easily got all this equipment and then used it like I was using this equipment before and probably not progressed.

[00:34:16] Neil Osborne: What you actually did was two things. One you helped me get a lot more structure and understanding about how to pull things together. I tend to do things a little bit more ad lib rather than structured. So I really like, and I still reflect back onto the structure. That he gave me number one.

[00:34:33] Neil Osborne: So I really do that. And then each time I miss you once a month, I had to make some progressions. So it's taking my kids out to teach them to drive. If we didn't do a reverse park, each time we went out for a drive, how were they going to learn that they might still learn to be able to drive the car, but they weren't doing the reverse box, and the first thing they're going to learn when they get there and all could be confronted with is a reverse park.

[00:34:51] Neil Osborne: The training for me was a vital piece of the promise about purchasing equipment because it's not just a matter [00:35:00] about getting it, it's and the things I've learned through my business is it's implementation is the most important word. In what you decide to do so that helped me a lot You're a lot more structured than I was in that space So that's you know, pull me back a little bit and went whoa.

[00:35:15] Neil Osborne: Okay. I need to look at that You were a good sounding board. You understood you actually did my delivery which I didn't install which was really nice Because we're not too far away from each other. So that was helpful. So you understood where I was but in particular it was just the And I'll say it in these words, you held my hand for the first couple of months until I actually got used to doing the reverse Bach to myself.

[00:35:39] Neil Osborne: And that I found tremendously helpful. I wouldn't have, I would not be where I am today. And I'll give you an example and I hope you don't mind me sharing this. I had a problem with Vidya about six weeks into working together and I started, I stopped using it. I haven't gone back to using it and I need to give myself an enormous slap around for doing that.

[00:36:03] Neil Osborne: I need to get back into using that and putting video back into my emails again. That's a classic example of how you can drop off and not get back on the horse again. So I was actually going to say maybe you and I could have a chat about Vidyard at some point to help me get back on the horse again.

[00:36:19] Neil Osborne: Because that was an important piece of me wanting to buy this equipment.

[00:36:22] Chris Schwager: And I think over the time that we've had this up and running as well, it's like to be a bit more software agnostic, and while we recommend things, we've got to be, aware that the changes and Vidyard has dropped off for us a little bit and we've not got a solution, but it's just, I've had a lot of tech hassles with Vidyard and even actually met with their tech team and it was like, Oh, great.

[00:36:43] Chris Schwager: Thanks for the info. We don't see ourselves fixing it anytime soon, but thanks for the info. And I was like, wow that's really shit. And yeah, I've had just in terms of speed and efficiency around things getting uploaded and done, like really just the tech side of it and partly to do with my system is different to your system.

[00:37:01] Chris Schwager: So that is part of the issue. However. Yeah, so this

[00:37:07] Neil Osborne: is not a video problem. This is an operator problem. This is a, this person problem. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's all I need. But anyway, this is an aside. So yeah, I look, I I've really enjoyed it. I quite often also have meetings here in my office.

[00:37:20] Neil Osborne: I'm, my office is not at home. It's, I have an office away from home and people always come in. I had a guy come in on Tuesday and he went, Oh, And that he was literally staring at the equipment. Where'd you get this from? How much is this? What sort of, and he was just all over it, a real techie guy.

[00:37:36] Neil Osborne: So that's always nice as well. Not the real reason why I got it. I can just show you.

[00:37:40] Chris Schwager: Look, I gotta say, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you, Neil. I really love the, your level of understanding. We talk the same language. Which is really great to both business operators.

[00:37:51] Chris Schwager: Both love what this is doing for our businesses. And I guess I just want to say thank you so much. I can't wait for you to be sharing this content yourself as well. And I've had our clients still, in fact, even this morning, I saw a bloody video pop up from this show. From a client that's gone and published it.

[00:38:08] Chris Schwager: He just doesn't stop. He keeps getting snippets and putting them up on social media. So we'll do the same for you. We'll have a polished Podcast, audio podcast. It'll eventually be video as well. And we'll get it out there and whatnot. So it's been fun I love the relaxed casual way that we've gone back and forth and I think there's still a hell of a lot of value that people can be Pulling from this as well

[00:38:29] Neil Osborne: Yeah, I hope it's helped.

[00:38:30] Chris Schwager: It has 100 percent helped. If you'd like to connect with Neil Osborne, please go and check out his LinkedIn profile first. And that's in the show notes for your information. But Neil, thank you so much. I can't wait. More than happy to help you with your get back up on that horse. Please.

[00:38:44] Chris Schwager: That'd be great. Anytime. That'd

[00:38:45] Neil Osborne: be great, Chris. Thank you.