Dadpreneur Diaries: Navigating Business, Breaking Barrier

Dadpreneur Diaries: Navigating Business, Breaking Barriers with Hugh Reardon (Episode 168)

podcasts video coaching Jan 08, 2024

Join Chris and his guest, Hugh Reardon from BQ Bridge, in an engaging episode that unveils the secrets to successful business communication and the transformative journey of embracing the title "Dadpreneur." In this conversation, Chris and Hugh dive into the challenges businesses face with content creation and implementation, exploring the power of creating once and distributing many. Hugh, a seasoned entrepreneur and coach, shares his personal experiences, from farming to founding BQ Bridge, offering valuable insights into building a brand, defining a message, and integrating video seamlessly.

Discover the importance of clarity, habitual practices, and consistency in business growth, as Hugh guides you through his proven methods to alleviate stress and achieve tangible results. Whether you're a seasoned business owner or aspiring entrepreneur, this episode provides practical advice and real-life anecdotes to inspire and empower your journey. Embrace the identity of a Dadpreneur, redefine your business approach, and break free from barriers hindering your success. Tune in and start your transformation today!

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Video Transcription:

Chris: [00:00:00] Hugh Reardon. Oh, this is such a fantastic episode. I am so excited by the proposition of create once distribute many that every interaction that you have in business, you document not so much all about creation, creation, creation all the time, and being so obsessed by making sure that you get eyeballs and visibility and all that.

Some of the challenge that businesses are faced with is. They've got content creation, you know, goals, but they struggle with the implementation. They struggle to get things really moving for their business. And so today is really exciting because I've got one of my coaching clients, Hugh Reardon from BQ Bridge on the show to go through this exact exercise.

So just as a bit of context, I've been, uh, video coaching Hugh for, for a number of months now, and we've gone through a whole bunch of different exercises in order to Build his information, build his messaging, build his on camera [00:01:00] presence. And this is all about record once so that everybody gets to leverage the recording, but also being able to then snip that this, you know, podcast up into several little vignettes, if you like, so that he's able to then expose a lot of himself, his vulnerabilities, where he's come from, where.

He's now operating as a new startup business in a new market. These are all exciting things for the broader business community to know. And yet a lot of businesses fail at this. They, they sort of expect that people will just kind of flock to them. Well, action creates action. And he is Hugh, Hugh. Thank you.

And welcome to the show.

Hugh: Thanks, Chris. Happy to be here. Just

Chris: firstly, just firstly, look, just if you can provide a little bit about where you go, where you've come from, because you've, you're such a prominent person in the business [00:02:00] and coaching space and the consulting space. Can you give the audience just a little bit of an idea, I guess, of where you've come from and where you are right now in this journey of not only integrating video, starting your own thing, trying to define your message to this market on your own.

Hugh: Yeah, thanks, Chris. I go back, I suppose, to early on in my journey, and that's me buying into my first business, which I did was, which was about 18 years ago, I bought into a business with a friend of mine. And we were actually in horticulture, we grew produce. So your fresh salads, which is spinach, wild rocket, and a lot of other things like I just loved farming.

And that's all I ever wanted to do was to go farming. But but farming actually, yeah, Turned out to be my second love. I think my first love was really business and, and, and I love the farming aspect of what I did, but I also love the growing the business. So, so we had a bit of success over that, that 18 years.

And, and, um, [00:03:00] again, like it was lots of things in, in, uh. Like it was farming. So I loved doing that. You know, the business was important. I was, I was working with a schoolmate. So we, we like had known each other since we were like 13 years old. So there was all of these things to tick the boxes, but there was just this, this itch or something else to do.

And that was really about helping others. So last year I sold my share of the business back to, back to my mate and he's still running that farming business. And, and I'm, I'm on a newer venture. So, uh, about helping others. You

Chris: refer to yourself as a dadpreneur. Now I've got an idea of what I think that might be.

But can you explain that in more detail? And how did you come up with that? Yeah, okay.

Hugh: So that's a working title. And so what I believe in is like, and it's not my language, it comes from Atomic Habits. And James Clear is about to set your identity. Like, who do you want to be? And that identity could be for yourself as the individual, or it could be yourself or, uh, where you want to go.

It could be your [00:04:00] business. So there's, there's all these things. So, so my, so when I sold my business, one of the drivers was I wanted to, I've been running really hard for, for, as I said, those 18 years, like whatever it took. And we're, we're like, that was, and, and, and this may resonate with some of your audience, like that was weekends, nights, what, just, just whatever.

And the family took a back seat for that. And I've got a pretty young family, like 10, eight and. Turning five. So it's like, well, I want to put them first. So that means that giving myself the identity, dad, dad first, and then, then business owner or building, you know, entrepreneur second. So the entrepreneur part I've been practicing that for literally all my life and the dad bit.

Putting it first is a new skill that I've got to learn like so I'm struggling a bit with both of them But but same sort of thing when I saw some of my business I'll set myself restriction about how much I work and because it's like well if this is the goal It's like [00:05:00] well, I want to give time to my family I want to find that one on one time with each of my kids.

So so that's the the identity that I've said To have

Chris: a professional look online, you really need a professional setup with a solution that allows you to switch it on and start shooting videos. Well, with the DIY video program, you get a fully equipped desktop video studio. You get expert scripting on camera training, video coaching, and all the skills you need to simplify and speed up your video creation process.

If you want to learn more, go to richfilm. com. au slash DIY. What, what's some of the mistakes that you have made that have made you stronger now more than ever to not only take on the role of a new responsibility in the business, but also nurturing three kids. And, and I think. For any father out there that that is an undertaking and and also the stigma that's attached to men and [00:06:00] working hard and providing for the family.

What's where did you where was the turning point for you to say you know what I'm equipped to be able to manage this myself and take this on and you know I'm happy to relinquish the share of the old business and try something new.

Hugh: Yeah, yeah, I'll try and unpack a few different things there. But the the thing was like in business and in parenting, you're a parent, Chris, you know, like you're sort of faking it till you make it and you're trying things and you're saying, well, is you're trying to find your style?

Do you know what I mean? As a parent, like And how you do. And then you ask other parents or, you know, just you ask other business owners, how do you run your business? What do you do? What fits? So you're always trying a style. And then the other thing you've got these, for me, these three little variables, kids, which, uh, each need a different style to manage.

So, so that was. The one thing to, it's about for me personally, it was really [00:07:00] about how much more do I need to, you know what I mean? And being, being comfortable with, well, the first thing is like, can I do it? Can I succeed? So I'm talking about business now. Can I succeed? Can I build a pretty big business?

And, and like. We, we, we did that, like our business that I've sold from, you know, it nearly had 30 million worth of annual revenue and 160 staff. So it was just about, can I do more? And that was really for me, selfish, you know what I mean? It was like, well, that's a me goal, not a family goal. So it's like, well.

I, I, I was been thinking about it for a while. I want to be a better dad, so that means I've gotta make a change. And, and, and they, I didn't believe they were mutually exclusive. Like I, this other path of growing this big business and more growth was just, you know, do I want more of the same? And I didn't.

So, so I left that. And then the second thing about being a better dad, it's like, look, I program myself just. Business first all the time. So I just had to unprogram myself and this is not language that I've used. But I think [00:08:00] from, you know, I, I use my own mistakes, but then I also read a lot and, um, look at what other people say and do.

And, and there was, um, there's the entrepreneur, Danny Myers, who wrote a book, Open Table, and he's, he's got a really interesting book. But one of his quotes is like, who made the rule that this should be it? And it's like, well, That, that really was the turning point. Well, who made the rule that I have to, it has to be more, you know what I mean?

Who made the rule that I have to work 50 hours a week. So I was just like, well, I, I, I make my own rules. There's nobody there. And then the second part of that is me getting comfortable with these things. You know, these new rules that I'm trying to make for myself.

Chris: How much is enough? We don't ask ourselves that question very often, I'm sure.

Well, the

Hugh: thing is, is like, I'm, I'm a first for knowledge. And again, you're going to get sick of me quoting authors, but Tony Robbins, another guy who's, who's again, who [00:09:00] he's very cringeworthy people in our generation, because we grew up watching him, you know, with the infomercials, you know, the, the. Guru, but he's got a lot of great stuff.

And again, any in one of his books, unshakable, which is all about personal finance. He's got a methodology for working on how much is enough in money. And it's like shit. So, so I actually did the calculation because I'm a bit risk averse. I doubled it. And I was like, well, that's enough for me. Do you know?

So, and, and what is that number? For me, um, yeah, it's really simple. Like if you want to get down to brass, brass tax, like if I can earn a business that generates 300, per annum, um, and my goal is to do that working less than three days a week. Then that's enough. Uh, you've got to remember advice is very, um, you know, for the individual.

So there's no good advice. It's just whether it's good for you. But, but I'm coming from a got, this is from my [00:10:00] position where I've been lucky enough to sell my business. So I'm, I'm, I'm really there. It's like, well, what's enough. And I don't want for much, you know what I mean? So all of these things, that's, that's enough for me.

And again, there's a calculator in. In the back of the book is like, well, what do you want? And I think that's the biggest thing for a lot of business owners is like, what is it? What is good look like? Where's the end? What's the vision? Do you know me? How much is enough? Because who are you doing it for? Is it?

Is it for you? And if it is for you, great. Like I'm no, no judgment from me. Do you know what I mean? It's not about you do you, you know, um, someone may say, well, I want to buy a bloody basketball team. Well, go, go, go get it. Like, but, but that's not my dream. So you do you. You do

Chris: you boo and I guess back onto the previous, you know, role, uh, you've obviously seen a lot of shit, right?

Um, what were the, what were the, some of the things that you were finding in you? I mean, you talked earlier about the truck driver [00:11:00] defecating, um, which I found kind of funny, but what were some of the things that you saw and went through and I guess kept grinding at you in order to make. Like I,

Hugh: I, I'm a truth seeker and, and trying to find things out.

So that like all the way through the journey, like us and, and your memory plays tricks on you. But I remember asking questions of people and not having. You know, getting the right answer. That could be a banker. That could be accountant. That could be different things. And then there's a few different variances of that.

Well, one, my questions weren't very good to I was asking the wrong people. So if you sort of take that lens, it's like that's the experience that I want to share with other people. And the way that the people that I see is myself, you know, at the start of my journey, you know, five years ago, That's true.

Um, 12 [00:12:00] months ago. So it's like giving the people that I work with in the business owners that I work with the lens to ask the right question at all. And that could be well, here's a better question. You're asking the wrong person or what do you really want? Because you get a few simple things sorted and and and and then it strips away a lot of other questions.

So I don't feel I gave you a good answer, you know, a bit of a

Chris: You give your answers the way you give your answers, you know, and this is, this is the important thing in acknowledging the language that you're telling yourself and, um, what you see of yourself throughout this recording, you know, this is as much of an experiment as it is content creation, um, you know, process, uh, that the hardest thing I found in public speaking for me was not.

Confidence was not camera

Hugh: presence. I don't believe that for a second.

Chris: There was none of that, right? Do [00:13:00] you know what, do you know what it was? Clarity. Yeah. Did they get something from it? Yeah. That's the thing I obsess about. Do they get something from this in his clear way? As possible with the ums and ahs out with the great little one liner that they can just take away.

So I've actually started pulling out little excerpts for ongoing presentations that are coming up soon and I'm finding all these beautiful videos from Simon Sinek and various other people. Why, why do I need to show off somebody else? Like, and I can say that shit, right? Like, and so when you're talking and quoting on say, Anthony Robbins, by the way, that I don't actually agree with you that there's the whole stigma.

I think is a, is fantastic. I saw him when I was 20 years of age and I also was the kid listening to him in the. Car on the tapes, my dad's tapes in the car and all this stuff. But you know, [00:14:00] I, I sometimes quote people, but then I think, well, what the fuck, why am I bothering with that? I just fucking say it myself, you know what I mean?

And like, and I'm not saying that it's disingenuous being quoting someone else's thing here, but it's like, you're the expert. You fuckin say it, do you know what I mean? and like that's the, that's, I think that's a sort of interesting thing to acknowledge because people are ultimately investing in you, not what you've got to say about somebody else.

C couple of d And by the way, this is not for your No, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Hugh: no, no, this is for my show right now. This is, this is, no, this is good. There's a few different things, because somebody's challenged me on that as well. Especially when we're talking to people, you know, you and I have a conversation and hopefully a conversation and hopefully a few other people that listen to this conversation.

So there's a few couple of things. The first thing, clarity that you said, like, I think that's simplicity and clarity and elegance is just. It's so undervalued, like, and that's where some of the themes that I spoke about, you know, like if I was going to say number one thing, you know, which, you know, is get clear on what you [00:15:00] want.

And that's what we spoke about. The second thing about quoting others, uh, and someone, someone else called me out on that and they said, well, why do you feel, and it was a good friend. It wasn't, it was just like. He, he was just like, and, and the same way you did it is like, well, why do you need to quote others?

And I actually, my purpose for doing it is different. It's like attribution. It's like, it's not my idea. So it's not me showing off. And, and again, if, if someone gets to know me, they'll go, I'm not showing off to say that I read like, 'cause I don't give a fuck what you think. Like, really, I, I've, I, I, I don't like, like me or Mo like I don't need, I don't read to, I don't read.

The books that I read to do a tick tock post, I read them, but the reason that I quote the books is to attribution because it's not my idea because I believe in, in giving credit to others who came up with the idea. It's not. And again, as opposed to where I think the, the, the, the tick tock clip is to show how fucking smart you are.

Well, it's not that. And do you know what I mean? So, [00:16:00] so I get it. It's like, well, why do you, yeah. And it's like, uh, if I don't have my own language, well, I'll use other person's language. But it's not about to give credit to the idea because the, the best ideas are the simplest ones,

Chris: you know, I tied it up.

Another actually coaching client of mine, um, who's in financial services and he was doing a webinar and, Oh, it seemed like every second or third slide he had like, Oh, Warren Bates, Warren Beatty, and this, that, and every, every, you know, Steve Jobs said this, and I was like, dude, just. Just saying it, you know, like I get it, you know, it's good.

You can pull out some quotes and then similarly around that and around what you're saying, but in moderation, um, you're, I'm so excited by your dad printer here because, and I don't want to, I don't want to circle back to it because you're the whole, the whole thing, a lot of the time about people labeling themselves in this way.

And for me, for instance, saying that I'm a video marketing specialist. Right now, for a lot of people, they're going to [00:17:00] go, well, what the fuck is that? Is that photos? Is that. What do you do? What does it mean? And I've had so many conversations where I've had to continue to explain it, to deviate back to ultimately something that they are familiar with, a wording and a language that they are familiar with.

So, you know, I, I've, I've. You know, I'm okay with somebody labeling me videographer, even though it's completely inaccurate videographer. Fine. If that's what you need to get clear on roughly what I do, that's fine. Now dadpreneur, will it create for you more questions and other, is that a good thing that it's begging curiosity that someone would say, well, what's that mean?

I'm kind of assuming it's attached to an entrepreneur. Um, and I guess if you do label yourself dadpreneur. Uh, is that a, is that a line to a value, a business that you are, you know, it's the, you know, BQ bridge is the coaching [00:18:00] platform for dad printers, you know what I mean? Um, you know, is there, is there, can you grow on it?

Can you use marketing to, to kind of emphasize it?

Hugh: Yeah. Well, I, I don't know. I, I, so the thing is, is let's try it and see if it sticks and that's where I'm, I'm, as I said, like I sold my business late last year and which is six months ago, so I'm trying things on for size and I'm trying, I'm doing me for me at the moment and I know I want to give.

Give my best to my kids. So that's first. And that's what dad is. And I know personally, I want to work with other business owners. So that's entrepreneur bit, whether it resonates with my customers, I do not know. But then the other thing too is, is when my customers can't get hold of me on a Monday. It's because of that and it's like, because I don't work Mondays.

Oh, why don't you work Mondays? Because I'm doing stuff solely driven for my family. And, and so,

Chris: and what's [00:19:00] wrong with that, right? Like, no,

Hugh: it's just, well, they want to know why. So why not? So, but, but again, then, but there's different language. for my customers and I'm still working on that language. So it's like, what language would I use with my customers?

It would be from stressed to done. So what do you do for your customers? I go from stress to done, which is mean like you're stressed. You're worried about stuff. You can't figure something out in your business. You, you, you know, you're the business owner and you've got all of these people, but. Things are still coming back to your plate.

You're the business owner and you know, you've, you've got all of these people and you're still not making as much money. You've got all, you're the business owner and you've got all of these people and you still can't have a day off. Where do I work? Well, well, I work in that entrepreneur space and I take your stress and I move it to done and that's really what the Beaky Bridge part of my journey is about.

It's about getting the shit in business. The simple but fundamental principles, right? You know, and that's and if you get and doing that over and over again [00:20:00] with different lenses of different businesses. So that's what I'm about. But the dadpreneur, it's like probably me talking to you as a as a person and part of our identity is dad.

Part of our identity is business owner. It's like, well, we can have a broad conversation because. I think if you're working with clients and you're working with business owners, it's about the whole. Do you know what I mean? Like if they're not sleeping enough, if they're having other things at home, like if they're under financial stress, you can't fix their business because you've got to fix some of these other, other first steps, you know?

So it's, it's, it's a whole thing.

Chris: What I'm hearing is it's a shit fight, people lack the discipline, the prob, the discipline, the ability to build a process into muscle memory so it doesn't take a lot of head space. It's, it's a, you know, it's an automated mechanical type of process that, that is systematic to a point where you.

Get them to done, right? Is that about right? What are some of the, what are some of the steps, I guess, that you're, you're taking with them in [00:21:00] BQ Bridge to leverage their time so that they do build better team and they get better organized in business?

Hugh: Well, first thing that we spoke about is clarity. What does good look like?

So that that that evolves over time. So you get clarity. And then the second thing you actually touched touched on it is it's like, it's habitual. So how do you build the habits? So it's about habit creation. Uh, so these are all simple, simple stuff, but hard to do. Uh, and then it's about consistency. So it's like, okay, well, how do you measure it?

Dashboards and all the other bits and pieces. So I, I haven't. It's giving you any revolutionary idea of giving you simple, fundamental truths. But the problem, as you rightly said, is discipline. It's turn up every day, work on your most important thing. Well, hang on, I don't know what my most important thing is.

Okay, let's get clarity. Let's go back. And so it's, it's around all of those things. And then where I come in is [00:22:00] I've lived, I've walked the walk, I've, I've, I've sat in your shoes and that's the first thing that sits, sits with me when I talk to a new client, I can visualize when I was sitting across the other side of the desk and it's going, I actually, you know, empathize with them through those lived moments, whether that was, as I said, me 15 years ago, me 12 months ago, me to five years ago.

So it's really going, okay, you're not clear, um, communication. Well, I keep telling my staff that that was something that I learned. You know, uh, I suppose culminated recently is like, I'd never told anybody enough. So you've just got to tell them over and over and over again. The second thing, part of that is you've got to be really clear on the message.

It's like, Hey guys, well, what's the message? And then me as an objective, you know, consultant can go, well, your message is not clear enough. Well, what about this? What about this? And then the same sort of thing, refine the message by telling the message. So, so these are simple pieces of advice, which I wish I had.[00:23:00]

And then also the, as I keep saying, the other parties to have the, the lens, which is my experience to go, no, the message is not right. You're full of shit. Like what's, what's the real problem here. You know what I mean? Are you doing it for you or you're doing it for whatever, you know, make peace with that.

Like the same way that you've made peace with people are going to call you what they're going to call you, but you're just going to do your thing.

Chris: To have a professional look online, you really need a professional setup with a solution that allows you to switch it on and start shooting videos. Well, with the DIY video program, you get a fully equipped desktop video studio.

You get expert scripting on camera training, video coaching, and all the skills you need to simplify and speed up. your video creation process. If you want to learn more, go to ridgefilm. com. au slash DIY. How much baggage do people carry around? You know, like I think it's very easy to highlight key things, key ways [00:24:00] that you solve problems for your business.

And as you said, you know, these are all not new ideas, but also they're not executable. Ideas like to go into communication, you've got to go and deep dive the shit out of it, right? Like you've got to go down and you've got to start at the base and build up up to something that is easily repeatable, something that they have can build confidence with, something that's easy for the market to understand.

What's, what is your revelation for For helping businesses where is it, is it a elephant so big in lots of cases for these people that they actually have no concept of where to start the overwhelm of the amount of tasks, uh, almost cripple them with the ability to be able to choose one and, and bought it off and go for the next one.

Where, where do you step, step in at that point? Do you kind of lay it all out and go, all right, that's the elephant we're going to buy it off. Let's

Hugh: prioritize. [00:25:00] Yeah, so let's, let's assume you know what you want and, and, and that, that aligns with who you are as a person and your skills and your capability and you get joy.

So let's do that. And let's even, let's go a bit further into the communication because we've spoken about communication and, and the same sort of thing. It's like, well, you want, it's about the communi communicating. So If you wanna get good at communicating, the first thing you should do is start communicating.

And then the second thing you should do is start testing what you're communicating. So that means trying different ways. You know, it's still you. It's still you. Yeah. Don't, don't communicate like Chris would, but communicate like you and, but try, try different things or not you come, well, communic well you try , try it on for size, but, but you do you, so, but then it's practice.

Practice feedback, practice feedback. Did it work? Didn't it? And then, and then it's consistency. Like, so, so as a bit of a side, like I do some running. Okay. And then I'm, I'm signed up for a marathon and I've joined the Facebook group because I haven't [00:26:00] run there before. And really interesting. Jenna, just find out a little bit.

And then you say these things, Oh, I'm training for the, this marathon. What should I do? And then there's all this thing. It's just like, just fucking run. Like, so if you're going to communicate, start communicating, you know, talk to your kids, try differently the way you talk to your spouse or your partner, the way you talk to, you know what I mean?

Like approach someone down, um, you know, in the street, you know, like step out. And that's the other thing, which again is a fundamental truth, like deliberate practice, like deliberate practice is just stepping outside your comfort zone just slightly every time you do something. So in the, in the lens of communication exists.

I'll give you a personal example. Like, as I, as I said, I run and I pass these people at the same place all the time. I'm not sure if you do something at the same time, might be the shopping center, you pass someone in the same thing. So this is early in the morning and I'll pass maybe three or four people in the same place and you give a wave.

And I was like, stuff it. I'm going to stop and introduce myself to these people because I see [00:27:00] them most mornings. I might as well greet them by name. So there was two things there. There was one. It was just building community because I live live in this area. And one of the main thing is like I wanted to do something new.

I wanted to step outside my comfort zone. I'm an introvert. Um, so I was like, so, so I introduced myself. G'day. And now, now these people I'm addressing by name. So the same thing for yourself and back to communication, do something different, step outside your comfort zone. And then the third thing is just be consistent, you know, just do it again, do it again, do it again and get the feedback.

And you take any problem and apply that lens, uh, and have somebody to, as a sounding board, then, then you get the result. Like, yeah.

Chris: How many, how much of business as you see it, lack that feedback, lack the rudder to steer the business and make these decisions quickly. It's, it's a, it's its own pandemic, right?

Like let's, I mean, the people say, Oh, the market's saturated with business coaches and all that sort of shit. And yet [00:28:00] we're still making such crappy decisions about the direction of business. And it's so overwhelming with the amount of information that a small business needs to take on. It's not just about selling product or service.

It's about the, all of the other shit that needs to happen to keep the business afloat.

Hugh: My message is not sexy. That's the, that's the thing, like, you know, like, what's sexy, like, AI is sexy, this is sexy, and absolutely use all of those tools. But the same sort of thing, like, if you're not doing the right things.

You know, the, the simple things, right. Then if you, if you, if you're building a business and you haven't thought about what you really want, like you could be building a business on the wrong wall. Like, you know, like if you want to go, I'm going to climb to here and you're like, Oh shit, I actually really don't want that.

So I think like all, there's a heap of tools and there's a heap of things. Like I use chat GBT every day, do you know, but is that going to [00:29:00] solve? Somebody's businesses problems, you know, no, no, it's just a, it's just another tool. And the same sort of thing. Like, I think to answer your question, um, you know, a lot of consultants will, you know, they've got a hammer.

So everything they see is a nail and they may be an expert in one field where that's the point of difference that I feel like I've got a broad range of experience. Growing from not many to many to saying, what do I do now that I've got a family? What is enough? What do I want to get clear on? What's important?

How do I communicate to my staff? You know, as, as you, as you think like, you know, I'm the guy that's had to deal with a truck driver who deficit defecated in a customer's lawn, like, you know, as to, I'm a guy that had to hire a CFO CFO, you know, we spent. like 160 grand with recruitment consultants and fired most of those people in, in about 18 months.

Um, we lost, I think, uh, 1. 3 million in a [00:30:00] deal and then just got out of it. Like all of these different things, we had a lot of wins as well too, you know, like we, we did, you know, uh, uh, really successful deal with HelloFresh. Um, and, and, and we're really lucky to be in that space. So it's not all, uh, it's both ways of the experience.

And that's the difference, I think, for myself. But the fundamental thing, which I've believed for a long time, is just do the simple things right, do them consistently.

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