Unlocking Purpose: Finding Meaning Beyond Business Grind with Hugh Reardon (Episode 166)

Hugh Reardon:

You've got to obsess over your customer, but if you don't know who your customer is and really clear and can't obsess over it, can't empathize with them, you struggle. And that's through learned experience. Like we didn't know exactly what we wanted to do in my previous business. Weren't crystal clear. Because of that, we couldn't obsess over our customer. We had too many priorities and nothing really got done. And I'm talking You know, uh, towards the, the end when the business got really busier. The bigger you get, the more focus you've gotta become. So that's probably my message, but there's nothing new in that message. But again, I can tell my stories why that message is important.

[00:00:45] Chris Schwager: Welcome to the Video Made Simple podcast. My voice is on the cuspy husky side today, but, uh, I could not stop this process because Hugh, my good friend and, and client, video coaching client is also on with us. Say Hi Hugh.

[00:01:06] Hugh Reardon: Hi, Chris. Thanks for having me. I'll try and do more of the talking then, maybe.

[00:01:11] Chris Schwager: Here's, Hugh and I have gone on through a bit of an exploratory phase and we just came off the back of Adam in a bit of a chat about the importance of Unwrapping the why and he was in his earliest phases of his new business. He's not new to business. He's got a good long history of being a high performing operator, but he's trying to now do that for himself. And part of the reason for deploying video coaching and trying to be more video centric about his approach is to, to hit his market with as much visibility as possible.

[00:01:45] And to do it in a unique way and, and often I find in social media like LinkedIn and well, particularly let's, let's just focus on LinkedIn, right? It can be very dry, stale and boring in that there's a lot of people telling you what you should do in business and not a lot of people leading with a story, leading with entertainment.

[00:02:02] And so I think this is a great opportunity to get Hugh on because I don't think Hugh's ever considered that either. And I think it's a nice, uh, discussion between two individuals to actually explore, uh, what makes us tick? You know, why do we do the things that we do in business? And I'm very firmly rooted that it isn't to make money and it isn't because you love helping people there is a deeper reason and that reason I believe is something that we're going to explore today with Hugh. So Hugh, tell tell us a little bit about you first and foremost and when I'm saying asking you about this. Go as young as you like, talk about your parents, talk about your siblings, talk about dinner and the table, let it rip, bro.

[00:02:48] Hugh Reardon: Yeah, wow. You built that up. I don't know whether I can live up to that, Chris. Um, but it's quite topical because I exited a business there last year with a desire to do something else. And, and if you go back to where I started, it was to make a buck, but then. You're like, I think that's where everybody starts, but, but once you sort of have a little bit of success and, and, and, and you're, you're going okay, then it's like, well, what, what try, what, what's driving you now? And that's been probably my journey in the last literally uh, I suppose 12 months since I sold my other business. What now and why, why and who? And if you do frame it in, in, um, into my early childhood, like I come from a family, like we grew up on a farm, family farm. We, we were, um, you know, mum and dad worked really hard. So mum was a nurse in town. Dad worked all the time, worked all the time. Like it was, there was, there was never much left over. Like, uh, we were lots of love. Good education. Um, but, but that was it. You know, like, I think from a family holiday point of view, um, you know, don't remember him going on many family holidays to the coast or anything. Um, you know, dad didn't want to go away. I was always working. So there was just all of these things that I suppose as you're going like formulate your view of the world and, um, and how you should conduct yourself, how hard you should work, um, what you should do. Um, and I know I'm still again, unpacking that in a healthy way because I've got this drive and I think it comes back to watching my parents work really hard that, that I've got to work all the time.

[00:04:36] And, and I did that for 17 years in my other business, just whatever it took. And we've had those conversations. You, you and I sort of. I have a similar approach of just gone, whatever it takes. So any, any entrepreneurs, any audience listening would get that. But now I'm at the point where, well, it's not about that so much. And I'm still just trying to wrestle with that.

[00:04:56] Chris Schwager: Yeah, there's a lot of people that listen to the words of people like Gary Vaynerchuk and, and others, and it's about the grind. It's about getting out there working 15 hour days and all that stuff. Um, that's one approach. Definitely is one approach. I think, I think, uh, businesses that are starting up these days have so much to take on and the thought of unpacking the old Simon Sinek why is like, shit, man, I gotta put food on the table. I gotta make sales here. I gotta develop the product. I gotta make sure it's marketed and clear and, and all of that. Like, fuck the why. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's a lot of energy. That's a lot of, a lot of energy. And I think recently with my wife talking about my, well, actually her story, her story as a mother of two children with a, with a husband that nearly died and getting made, not making her promotion in her job, not, coming to a crossroads where she felt like then wanted, then she needed to have more, she needed to, it's got to be more than nine to five.

[00:06:14] It's got to be more than just working to 60 and working for the weekends and all that. And, and I, I got to say it was such a compelling explore exploration for her to, to tell her story in this way. And it really got me thinking with Hugh, I guess, as to. You know, is this universal? Like, is this a story?

[00:06:34] You know, men are slightly different that men, men have the stigma of having to provide for their families and making sure that they are the bread owner and they're doing everything else. And, you know, like, it's funny, the moment, the moment you or I start talking about our childhood and our parents, it almost is like, Oh my God, it makes all sense now right? Like, um, and I'll just, yeah. I'll just quickly get this story in because I know you gotta have a quick say here, but for me being the youngest of eight children, I recall my parents being very busy. My mum was always there, my dad was always working and there was a vacancy in, in a lot of the times that I was trying to really speak to them and really, um, connect with them and, and look, I would probably even go as much as saying that the memories that I have are probably partly bullshit, partly conjured up in my head and

[00:07:37] Hugh Reardon: that's, that's a lot of, yeah, your memories tell you lies that the stories that you tell yourself. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:45] Chris Schwager: I do remember my dad getting a report card from one of my siblings. Yeah. And yeah, that's good son. And then using it to pick his teeth. It's like immediately a diversion in his thought process led him to something else. And he's off with affairs and maybe he's thinking about his work day or whatever it was. But so much of the investigation I do with people around their stories and understanding and determining their why, you know, the earliest investigations is to go back to the earliest memories of Of childhood and to actually that in some regard shapes us to how we are today. And in fact, I believe that it is shaping us. It does shape us. So I have so much evidence around us now. And um, as I said to you earlier here, for me, it's not so much getting attention because, you know, I was born into a room of people, you know, there was more than enough siblings to go to go around. It was being heard. It was. It was acknowledging that if I had something to say that it was valued by the recipient, and that's something that I still carry through to today.

[00:08:49] My biggest obsession is not being conscious about the way I sound or the way I come across on video. Like I got that asked to me the other day, how do you, how do you cope with your own voice, the sound of your voice and the way that you appear? And I said, I got a problem with that. I have a problem with you making sure that you get value out of everything that I say. That's all I care about. I just want the best. I want you to acknowledge that, you know, there's this, I've got some good information to give you and that it is practical and you will be able to use it.

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[00:09:50] Hugh Reardon: Your wife's journey, you know, and the, and the catalyst, you know, your accident and the catalyst for that is different, but the, the journey I feel that she sort of started is very similar to where I'm at is like figuring it out. And again, with all the bullshit, but there's, so I've just been actively looking as like, well, why am I doing this and what's my next step and all those things. And there's two things that actually that you said that I've, I've written down recently. It's like, what are some of my opinions or my ideas or my memories that no longer serve me? So it's like, what are some of my biases? So I've got that down as a, as a, it's in an affirmation app. Just, just to remind us, like, what are some of my thinking that is no longer serving me just because it, and the second part of that was that there was another, another thing that I picked up was like, whoever wrote the rule that it has to be this way. So it's like, so, so you use those together. It's like, well. What's no longer serving me and there's no rules to follow like I know there's society pressure societal pressure and all of these other things and there's a lot of stuff where I'm fortunate enough that that that I just never have brought in like keeping up with the Joneses and all of that I am and I'm very happy within myself, with who I am, you know, just sort of no, no fucks given about what anybody else thinks. So I'm very comfortable there. But there's, there's a lot of other, again, those deep seated stuff about how much I work, how hard I work. And then it's like, well, where's this story come from? Is it, is it serving me and who wrote the rule that I can't do something else? And so it's just getting comfortable with that, um, is really where my head's at, and then exploring about, that's the next thing is like I'm trialing stuff on the on the sides

[00:11:24] Chris Schwager: I was just helping a friend of mine on his keynote presentation for the BGS Summit, which is coming up next week, actually, 5th and 6th of September, free to join, free to join, free to join, free to join,

[00:11:40] Hugh Reardon: I looked it up, I looked it up actually two days ago. So I saw, you know, good.

[00:11:44] Chris Schwager: Yeah. Good. Dom, Dom is talking about AI, uh, staff, outsourced staff, automation, that type of thing. And so I, you know, he, he invested in some, some coaching to support him in making sure that his presentation was not only useful for the BGS summit, but also diversifying that reusing that video across other areas of his business, right. Which makes complete sense. And little, little do people give the time to structure their presentation correctly. And so that was what we were working on on Friday. And then today, just this morning, we're recording it. And I didn't purposely didn't work on his body because it can take a long time to work on the body. I really just obsessed about his introduction. So as he recorded it this morning, introduction went well, it was, you know, constantly attention hacking and and moving people through a flow very nicely. And, um, and then he got to his to his body and away you went. And so as he progressed through his body, which is the longest part of the presentation. Yeah, I started to realize that it was a lot about, uh, yeah. You know, this is what you do. This is. And also, this is what you should do. This is what you should look out for. This is what you do this way. What? What? What? What? What? What? Right? And so I let him go. And then I made some comments at the end of his first pass. And I said, what's not happening here is your injection of your own story from your clients or something that you've gone through as to validate the what, as to say, this is, this is how I did it. This is what I learned. This is why I did it. And Subsequently, that gives a premise for possibly how it could work for you too, right? So a lot of that why story driven content was far more easy to digest because it was an experience. It was just a bit easier to latch onto than him just kind of barking the what the whole time, because after a while, too much of the what and it becomes noisy, right? You've got to be able to attention hack through that body of the presentation and just got to go. Okay, now I've told you that let me tell you a story, right? And all of a sudden their people's brains is like, wake up out of the coma a little bit and away they go again, right? And so tension hacking, it's, it's drilling for attention within the presentation to make sure that you get the gold really at the end and you get the outcome that you're looking for. Um, Okay. Thank you. Too few people pay attention to really... To, to, to make sure that they convey why they do things in the first place and opportunities are missed as a result.

[00:14:25] And social media, the way that we interpret social media is very little story driven content, very little why content in there. And I think a lot of people are afraid, they're afraid that, and they don't feel comfortable in sharing those types of stories. And they don't understand how important it could be as well. And in case in point with ourselves at the moment, having high amount of difficulty really getting, um, more organic reach, you know, and I'm ready to push the button on the Susan Schwager story, which, which went great, went amazing. But she really put her heart on her sleeve. She really told her story and it was a universal story about women not, um, getting the same opportunities.

[00:15:12] And also the fact that we're in a regime or a, or a bloody society that says, okay, yeah, you work hard, do your 9 to 5, and shut the fuck up, you know, and you get paid what you get paid.

[00:15:28] Hugh Reardon: Yeah, yeah, there's, uh, but the same thing, like, uh, there's a heap of, I don't know, heap of things to unpack, like, just from the storytelling, like, that's how we, we've evolved, you know, literally sitting around a campfire telling stories about this is why it's important, this, and again, learning through story. So it makes sense that, uh, when you're communicating to somebody doing it through a story is going to resonate and the other thing too is when you listen to a good story, like you immerse yourself as the, you know, as the audience and then you can see how it overlaps with you, whether that's a movie or something. And I think that that's just a given.

[00:16:07] The second part about being vulnerable, I actually, again, it's something that I struggle with in the sense that I'm like, well, I want to, and here's some real examples like, again, from my upbringing to be humble and not to brag, and which I don't want to do, but it's like, well, if I'm going to be vulnerable and I want to try and inspire people, I say, well, this is, this is, um, my next goal that I'm going to try and, uh, target. And then you, then all of a sudden you're pinning yourself up there and saying, well, this is what I'm going to do. And you're putting it out there in the world to try and inspire others and try and be a bit vulnerable or when you're, you know, having a tough day sharing that with the world. But it's like, well, why are you sharing it with the world and the audience?

[00:16:52] And what are you trying to convey? So all of those things I haven't, I haven't really sort of fully formulated yet, because I do want to, from my point of view, I do want to start sharing my stories and sharing my vulnerabilities with, with, with everybody that is in my audience, just to know just purely as a support mechanism. Hey, this, this is somebody that's had a moderate amount of success and they still think about this or they still, you know, like, yeah, as I said, look, spent 18 years in a pretty successful business and now I'm taking another step and, and I'm like, shit. Uh, you know, this is this is nerve wracking. Let's go again. And it doesn't matter about experience. And then you imagine somebody that's never actually, you know, this is the first time out. So all of those things are really difficult. And then you come back to, well, why are we doing it? Like, is it because of Barker and there's people there that are just trying to grow their audience and trying to do this and all those other bits and pieces. So it's just overlapping that with, with who you are and what do you want to be?

[00:17:53] Chris Schwager: Did your parents ever work? Like, do they work for others all their lives?

[00:17:58] Hugh Reardon: No, no. Um, dad, dad, dad was, uh, he had his. He, he had the farm again that that had chronic fatigue. So he was so again, dad was really, um, definitely an entrepreneurial spirit. So he was really doing things like this things in farming. He was some of the first to do it in the world. Well, in Australia. Like, so we, he, we lived in Northwest New South Wales. He drove to South Australia in an old, uh, it might've been like, this is how clearly I can remember it was 1986, uh, it's an old Commodore wagon that they drove and they picked up a piece of machinery cause you could only get it in South Australia. So I'm not sure how many K's that is. Couple of thousand K's one way, maybe further, you know, maybe 3000. I'm guessing. Bloody long way, you get the picture, to buy a piece of machinery. So he was doing all of this stuff, which is now common practice. And, um, but he ended up with chronic fatigue. So what that meant was then from the late eighties, all the way through to the 2000, it just didn't function well enough. Like he couldn't make decisions, you know, he was, he was sort of laid up, you know, and so from the family business, it just stagnated for um, that 20 years, uh, longer. So that sort of resonated with as, you know, any ailing sort of business as it's, as it's only just covering costs, mom had to go to work back as a nurse. So there was all of those things that impacted me. Um, so straight away, one, one of the, the thing is I watched dad struggle to make decisions. And that was a result of his chronic fatigue, um, because he wasn't like that, you know, like he, he. He got a, he made a lot of progress through those 70s and 80s and was really leading the field and then all of a sudden it stopped.

[00:19:49] So, but, but for me growing up, you know, as a teenager, watched him struggle to make these decisions. And so now if a decision can be made, I make a decision and that's a complete. Uh, which is a good, good, good outcome. You know what I mean? I don't struggle with my, and if it's a bad decision, who cares? Just move on, mate. Fix it up.

[00:20:07] Chris Schwager: And is this in aid of trying to save yourself the stress of harbouring on things?

[00:20:14] Hugh Reardon: Yeah, absolutely. Like, I watch him just... Talk about things and talk about things and talk about things. It's just like, yeah, make, make a fucking decision, like good or bad and fix it up. And yeah, so I don't know, although some things impact you. Yeah. So, and, and because of that, like, you know, again, money was always tight. Um, dad couldn't make a decision that impacted the way that I went about, you know, business. Like some of the good things in the DNA, I saw some of the stuff that he'd put in place. I saw some of the way that he, he still had that, uh, he still had that, that mindset, but he just lacked the execution because of the chronic fatigue, both on his, his, his decision making ability and his, his physical. Physical ability to get things done.

[00:20:58] Chris Schwager: To have a professional look online, you really need a professional setup. With a solution that allows you to switch it on and start shooting videos. Well, with the DIY Video Program, you get a fully equipped desktop video studio. You get expert scripting on camera training, video coaching, and all the skills you need to simplify and speed up your video creation process. If you wanna learn more, go to ridgefilms.com.au/diy.

[00:21:26] It's funny, like you talk about that and, and effectively that that is part of your journey, the way that you've actually told that story. You know, it's funny when people think about storytelling. I don't know, they maybe, maybe the considerations around a bit of wasy washy or who would listen to my story, it's not that interesting. But when the brain of the viewer, the recipient is listening to that story, whether they've their dad's a farmer or not, everybody has a dad and you know, most people have a dad, right? It's activating a part of the brain that functions different than what you're just going to like, tell them what BQ Bridge is all about, right? Like it is a completely different way of marketing your business and, and getting a connection from people because you're leading with a story. That story is somewhat universal because, you know, anybody our age, I guess, has gone through parents working like dogs. Or in my case, my mom, who was rearing eight bloody children, right? She worked like a dog. It's just that she worked like a dog at home, you know, whilst dad was sort of incognito. Um, but the way you tell your story Hugh, for me, makes sense. And is fairly clearly mapped to why you're doing what you're doing right now. It's like helping people, not making mistakes, um, getting execution right. These are all the things that your father clearly struggled with and you've already said that, right? So when I talk earlier about, the way we're shaped is really from those earlier years, you know, it's usually, I don't know. I always pinpoint the number seven as being the year that it all fucking changed or whatever. But I, I've, I've interviewed so many people and they all, the starting point was back right when they were kids. I've, uh, I mean, it's, it's uncanny really. It is. It's, it's as to why they do what they do now. Um, directly aligned. So yeah, it's, it's exciting, man. And you should embrace what you just said, right?

[00:23:31] If you played this back and you, you, you listened to that and then you put a bit of B roll over it with some beautiful music. You've actually got something that's, you got something there that is ultimately the backbone for something that could be really, really amazing and really compelling in, in the way that you market your, your business rather than going, well, I'm going to do what everyone else is fucking doing and going to put my company profile video on my homepage and whatever, rather than really trying to trigger an emotive response from people that then changes their opinion and the way they think about you because don't forget, if they're looking for guys like you compared with competing guys like you and they, you know, you guys look all about the same, but you have video and they don't, that's already an advantage. And then if your video plays and it's not a shithouse fucking explain a video that maybe they're not trying to explain what they do.

[00:24:26] It's you leading with the story of your dad, right? Yeah. What the hell? Right. Where's this guy from? Right. And, and the fact that your main objective in, in nurturing new opportunities is all about building rapport and trust and less about trying to sell them the fucking product right there and then. Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, you're winning bro. You're winning. People are looking at you going. Holy shit, man. Like this guy's, um, special, like this guy's different, you know, and I, I see that now. Cause I, cause, cause, cause, well, you know, it only needs to be perceived, right. As far as I'm concerned, uniqueness, you know, is, is really is not much uniqueness in the market and certainly businesses. I mean, 99 percent of the businesses are not unique. They could tell you they're unique until they're blue in the face.

[00:25:17] Hugh Reardon: I just, I said in theory and that turned on Siri.

[00:25:20] Chris Schwager: Oh, oh, oh, there you go. I turned on Siri. Okay, cool. Let me fill in while. You there mate? BQ, yeah, I am. Okay. Explain, explain yourself. Ah, Siri. Uh, it's the same if I try and I'm not going to say it now, but the non Google, the other competing Google, the competing Google product, it will probably shut down. It'll probably shut, it'll probably shut down my whole system here.

[00:25:47] Hugh Reardon: So yeah, that's anyway. Sorry, I missed that point, but you could, I was just like, I couldn't figure out what's up. No, sorry, mate. Um, I'll just dovetail into what you're going to say there. The, like, if you want to build, like you talk, talk high performing teams, which is something that, that I, I'm really interested in. If you want to build a high performing team, the first thing, the first fundamental is trust. So just, if you want your audience to be part of the team, they need to be trust. And the way to build trust is to be vulnerable. So telling people why you are, who you are and part of that drives, you know, like again, like it's, you're being vulnerable and you've got to get comfortable with that. I suppose the same way, you know, the question about, are you comfortable with your own voice?

[00:26:31] Like you've got to get comfortable with telling your stories and why you're telling your stories. And, and then what, you know, the reason for telling your audience the stories, you know, and, and that's, that's part of, I think the journey. And for me, it's. It's been actually, and with some of the things we've been doing is trying different stories and see how they fit and what's my message and going, well, cause yeah. And how does that compare to the status quo? Because fuck me, I do not want to be like the other people in my industry because that's part of why I joined the industry. So all of these things, but you don't know, unless you have a crack, you know, take risks and see where you see where it falls.

[00:27:10] Chris Schwager: I had, uh, one of my lawyers say to me, uh, sort of said, what's going on? I said, Oh, I'm just spending a lot of time trying to discover my wine. He's like, Oh, don't bother with that. That's a, you know, like what? Come on, man. You know, because, because the funny thing is when I started to, when I said to him, you know, to, to myself, look, I'm gonna, you know, give this a crack and go on this journey. Yeah. It wasn't like, Oh, immediately I had the perfect bloody little excerpt as to why I do what I do. Yeah, it's taken time and there's constant refinement and constant changes and iterations going on. You know, is this as strong as it can be? You know, and I'm, and I'm, I'm liking it because I guess I get to speak in front of people and speak at events and whatnot, and I make sure that that's included because it, it.

[00:28:00] It does validate the reason I'm there to present the information to them, but also it's Again, back to my point, activating a part of their brain that they're not used to. It's like they're not used to people leading with the story. They're used to people going, Oh, hi, I'm Chris and this is my product. This is my bloody name, position, name, company. This is what the presentation's about. And then, you know, bore, bore, bore.

[00:28:27] So you know, what, what, what information I guess here in the last couple of minutes could you give to your You know, prospective buyer, I guess, you know, let's, let's think about who we're really talking to here, but prospective buyer, what's the thing that your, that you obsess about and that you think that they should obsess about as well.

[00:28:49] Hugh Reardon: Can I answer you? I'm going to answer your question second because I just want to go with the story just to go back around my own journey in the sense that I said to you before is like what stories are not serving me and whoever wrote the rules. So for me, that is like the story is like again, just watching everybody in my family work really, really hard.

[00:29:09] So it's like. I felt that, that draw that I must work really hard. And then it's like, whoever wrote the rule that I should work every waking hour or whatever, what's normal, how many? So you put them together and I'm like, well, I set myself, I only want to work, I said, three days per week, but that didn't fit with me either.

[00:29:32] And I was like, but. So I was just conflicted. And then I just kept challenging that and challenging that, you know, and working and reflecting on that. And then what I really want is freedom in the sense that I want to be able, if I've got a really good idea, I want to be able to go all in on that because that's, that's the way I am as a person. I get excited and I wake up at night, I wake up at three o'clock and I'll just go to work. And I'm like, so I was, I was trying to do one thing which was against the grain, but I was also trying to, so now I want freedom. So that, that, for me, that means is, both. It means if I've got a project that I want to go all in on, well, I'll go all in on it and, and work around that and, and, you know, work the family in and then, but the same sort of thing, like I'm not doing that for weeks and weeks and weeks. And if I want to take two days off or I want to take a week off, then, then, then, so it's not about having structure. It's about having freedom, but that took me a long time to get to that. And it's still developing. So last time we spoke, I'm like, yeah, I want to sort of work three days a week, but that's not it. I want the freedom to choose what I want to do when I want to do. Um, serve my clients, um,

[00:30:33] Chris Schwager: whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right.

[00:30:37] Hugh Reardon: Absolutely. And the message to any of my clients, you know, which is, is the business owner trying to grow their team. My simple message is this. It's like you. You've got to come down to one or two important things like forget about everything else. If you can't distill what you're trying to do into one and two important things, you're trying too much and that's really, really difficult. So, and, and why is that? Is because consistency beats talent. So if you consistently show up and do the same thing, then you're going to succeed over time. You know, I'm talking 12 months, 3 years, you know, 10 years, but you need to be really careful of what you pick. And, and that, the final point again, this, everything that I'm saying is nothing new. You've got to obsess over your customer.

[00:31:27] But if you don't know who your customer is and really clear and can't obsess over it, can't empathize with them, you struggle. And, and that's through learned experience. Like we, we didn't know exactly what we wanted to do in my previous business. Weren't crystal clear. We, because of that, we couldn't obsess over our customer. We had too many priorities and nothing really got done. And I'm talking, you know, towards the end when the business got really busy, the bigger you get, the more focused you've got to become. So that's probably my message, but there's nothing new in that message. But again, I can tell my stories why that message is important.

[00:32:00] Chris Schwager: Well, I've really no, nobody that couldn't benefit from someone like BQ Bridge and Hugh here and to support you, you constantly get feedback as to what direction your business needs to is to go in and we have a coach in soccer. You need coaches to do all sorts of new things. And yet, for some reason in business, we sometimes get a bit complacent.

[00:32:25] We don't ask for help. We don't put up a hand. We don't acknowledge the stresses are normal functions of everyday life. And so we can get quite build up and, and beat ourselves up about it, you know, and realize that there's always people out there to support you through your journey. And it's just to being vulnerable and asking for help, um, looking at your customer base in a different way, rather than just transactional, you know, be. Be emotionally charged, you know, I think now today's landscape, people will respond beautifully to that because we're all saturated with the what and not with the why. And so Hugh, I just want to say thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:33:05] Hopefully, or certainly in the things that I've heard today, it's been a nice, uh, to hear your responses to some of this stuff that we've been talking about. And to acknowledge that this has been your part of your journey as well as to discover your own uh, reason why you exist and, and, and one day feeding that into your marketing as well.

[00:33:26] Hugh Reardon: Yeah. Thanks, Chris. Final message is I, I left my business of 17 years to go do something else and start a new journey. And I thought that I was clear on what that was. I'm now 12 months down the track and I'm only just becoming clear on that. So, so don't worry if you haven't got it, just keep trying. Um, yeah, just keep trying. It's, it's, it's definitely a process, definitely a journey. So thank, thanks for your time. Thanks. It's been good. I always enjoy chatting.

[00:33:55] Chris Schwager: You're welcome.